Getting paid if the client doesn't sign?

I just started working as a notary signer, I have 18 years experience in the Real Estate Industry so the documents are not a problem but figuring out the process is a little overwhelming. I have taken just a few assignments through SnapDocs so far. Just wondering what happens if you go to an appointment and they decide that they don’t want to sign. Do you still get paid? Are you supposed to be given the phone number for the client to confirm the appointment (I have not thus far). TIA

If the borrower decides not to sign, if you made the trip you usually receive a trip fee amounts depends on who you are signed my for. If you have not made the trip but printed the docs you can request a print fee. I do give my number if I get there voicemail. I am not going to waist my time calling until I get an answer. Besides did you give you number out when you where a real estate agent? Your running a business you have to treat it that way. Also you may know some of the paperwork, suggest you take a signing agent class “Loan Signing Systems” its an investment in your business. I have been a signing agent for years and have sat at a closing table where the real estate did not have an understanding if all the paperwork we deal with. I use to sell mortgages and still took the class found it very informative.

1 Like

No-signs: Depends upon each co’s ‘policy’ AND prior negotiation. TCs, in particular, sometimes refuse to pay anything at all for a no-sign UNLESS you negotiate payment when accepting job. Yes, you should be getting a contact # for signer with the order, tho’ there are a few who just want you to show up and their ‘policy’ on payment for no-signs does vary so be sure you ask and negotiate full fee if that’s not their policy. Even with the companies who have a ‘print & trip fee’, I still often must negotiate a higher ‘print/trip fee’ because the nominal amount they pay simply isn’t adequate as I often travel quite a distance and a nominal $50 or better ‘1/2 fee’ does NOT cut it. Point is there is no standard and many variations so it’s best to ask & negotiate.

3 Likes

You should get a trip fee. It’s good to discuss up front.

1 Like

As stated… The fee paid for refusals and no shows varies from company to company. Some pay the entire fee while others pay partial or attempt to pay no fee.

I have not experienced the latter on the SnapDocs platform.  This is not an advertisement for SnapDocs BTW. The platform has a ways to go before it can truly be considered a level market place for our services.

As it stands… those “advertising” signing have for too few checks in place. Nowhere in SnapDocs are signing, title, & etc. companies made to provide that information in a way that is visible to signing agents. Even still… that is another forum post.

Using SnapDocs… I have had only 4 occasions in the year where a signer was a “no show”. Two (2) of the three (3) companies automatically offered a wait fee while they followed up with the signer(s), lender, title, etc. The added dollars to wait 15 minutes is always a nice. Sadly, not many companies (regardless of type) respect our efforts so this doesn’t happen often.

(Those 2 agencies are preferred customers of mine now. I take their signing over others when their is a scheduling conflict. After a couple of months they just started calling directly then linking the assignment if I could do it.)

I have had several refusals since I started using the platform earlier this year. Each company paid the full fee save one. That one company was passed to collections. 9.999 times out of 10 the signing companies, title co’s, etc. are still paid their contracted rate even if the deal falls flat. Those fees in generally are not refundable. We should not be the exception to this.

Like those organizations… my resources (time, supplies, fuel, knowledge, skill set, etc.) were spent. That demands equal compensation. A “trip fee” for a refusal is not sufficient based on my accounting practices. That “fee” usually doesn’t cover travel and print cost. That is a loss and I would be the only one taking on that burden. No thank you.

If SnapDocs would force agencies to provide their full fee schedule for these scenarios it would save a lot of time and make thing better for all who depend on the platform. There is no reason why the offered no-sign fee cannot be presented when viewing the notices.

Until SnapDocs improves… call the assigning agency and negotiate a no-show/refusal fee. Some agencies are easier to deal with than others.

Consider your cost: time, supplies, energy, mileage, fuel, etc. when you negotiate a refusal and no-show fee.

My fee for a refusal is the full rate. I did as agreed and the client deciding to terminate the process is a gamble those companies take. I am not being paid based on a gamble. I do not use my resources without fair compensation.

I establish my trip fee. I will agree to a lone trip fee only with a re-schedule on a “no-show” and there is no need to redraw & reprint docs. If a reprint is needed for the re-schedule I have a separate fee for that. Again… I’m not taking a loss based on their gamble.

Outside of SnapDocs… I have had only one (1) company reduce the fee paid to me because a client refused to sign. That was my first and last time doing business with them. Their account was submitted for collections. I provided them with a fee schedule at their request that clearly states that by hiring me they agreed to the listed fees.

There has been only one (1) no-show outside of SnapDocs. That company attempted a no-show rate fee below my standard. They backpedaled when title picked up on the thread. Funny as it was… the P.O.C. decided to “reply-all” not realizing that included the title company.

That title co. contacts me directly for closes in this area now.

I am still “new” to this but I gained ALOT of experience in a relatively short period of time as a NSA. That is supported by 20 years in IT, 12 years in project management, and 7 years consulting in business process management. I learned quickly that most agencies do not respect the time, energy, and finances we pour into providing this service.

Take the time to consider the TOTAL cost of you doing business and the $$$ you wish to bring home post expenses. Set your fees. Stick to them. Do not be afraid of telling a singing agency, title company, attorney, loan company, auto dealer, individual, etc. NO. It really is the 1st word we learn as children 99.99999999 % of the time.

You CAN NOT CONDUCT BUSINESS AT A LOSS so they profit.

I know I hit a few tangents, but I couldn’t avoid them considering the mentioned platform. And I think sharing our experiences can really help one another.

5 Likes

For the most part there is a print & trip fee. Most companies do not disclose it but is a common practice in the Loan Signing Industry. If the borrowers refuse to sign, & the hiring company doesn’t offer to pay you a print & trip fee, you can request it. Once in awhile borrowers will refuse to sign for various reasons-which are beyond your control however it isn’t your fault , so you should be compensated a fee for your time. Tthis is the disclaimer I add to the invoices when I bill for Trip & Print fee: " The largest component of what we sell is our time. Notaries can only be working on one signing during a given time. Fee is payable regardless of the outcome. Generally, it is hard to resell that block of time. Sometimes, other work has been turned down and can’t be recovered because I committed the time to a specific appointment. Although the signing did not take place my fee is still due." You can use it if you would like.

3 Likes

Each job I take I send a confirmation of the confirmation contract to the hiring party. In it I state that if I do the job I was hired to do, they owe me the fee they agreed to pay IN FULL. That job includes all the printing, verifying, traveling, time signing, packaging and dropping for delivery. If the signers don’t show or refuse to sign, that’s outside my scope of work. I was hired to present the documents and if I’ve done all I can, then the fee that was negotiated is what is owed me. It’s bad enough to have to wait more than 30 days to get paid, without being offered crumbs when we have no control over the situation.

3 Likes

Thank you to everyone for the feedback it is much appreciated. I have noticed many of the companies only pay half if the client doesn’t sign.

Hi Dominus,

I am a new Notary signing agent. I have done closings in the past at the Chicago Title and Trust Company. You have really given good information as far as adding that they should pay full fee if the signer doesn’t want to sign. I agree our time is precious and very important to us. I am still working a full-time job, and I don’t have time to waste. I have however, been receiving emails for assignments from Snapdocs through companies such as Coast2Coast and Sunshine Signing Inc. but I keep telling them I have a full-time job and they don’t send the notices until 2 or 3 hours before the closings. How do you advise that I handle this. I would like to at least receive the documents a night or 2 ahead of time this would give me time enough to get home to produce my packages. You advice is needed!

Thanks
lusmith19@comcast.net

What you’ve described IS the nature of most of this business. Best advice I can give is find companies that don’t operate at the last minute (hard) or find other ways to make extra money that fit your time constraints.
Notarizing trust docs for a local lawyer or filling in for an overwhelmed local TC on a Saturday. General notary work can be profitable and with less immediate time issues.

Arichter is right. That is the nature of the business BUT it is only due to poor planning and execution before docs even get close to being in a NSA’s hand.

There are a few ( VERY few) companies who maintain a high standard in their doc handling from beginning to end. They do not want NSAs to print them. They will provide docs via FedEx or UPS. The packet includes signer copies, return labels and packaging, etc.

Those companies plan and schedule 3-10 days out. Sad that those signings are few and far between.

I have had the pleasure of working with 2 title companies that still do this. I know a NSA that works with 3 or 4 that follow the same practice. She was my point of entry as she actually referred me when she was unable to accept past work.

I suggest you prioritize based on your needs, wants, and goals.

I assume you need your full time income. Do not give it up or miss work for a signing. Inform potential clients of your availability. Signings will come at those times. It will simply be fewer than you initially want.

Put experience behind your stamp and build your confidence. Begin approaching title co’s, attorney offices, and other professional services to offer your services based on your availability.

There are very VERY few clients I will accept docs from for what I consider last minute. I have rescheduled and flat out rejected signings because of this.

It is a point of safety, preparation, and professionalism. I schedule my time for a reason.

Become the after / off / unusual hours NSA that no one else is willing to be is my suggestion. Make that a selling point and charge for that targeted service. You deserve to be compensated for that regardless of the circumstances that limit you to those hours.

SnapDocs platform can be used to schedule signs weeks in advance. The culture that prevails there is last minute low rate signings simply because that is how the companies choose to utilize the tool. Not all mind you… just most of them.

Take what you deem to be fair when available, BUT DO NOT let that be your only or primary source for work. You are going to need to develop direct relationships with the larger and smaller title co’s, lending houses, and auto dealerships (in some states).

Hope this helps & encourages you in your NSA adventure.

Note… reply posted from my phone. Typos and grammar issues to be expected.

1 Like

That’s a great idea! Did you use a template or just type it yourself? Do you have them sign it? Have their ever found it offense and then not asked you to do the signing? Sorry for all the questions!

You may find it helpful to add attending a training program to your extensive experience. :sparkles:

============
When I initially started performing this work, I successfully completed MULTIPLE training/certification programs including Notary2Pro. I’ve successfully completed ALL of the various training/certification programs offered by Notary2Pro.

I’ve professionally compared the training/certification program with Notary2Pro with the others I’ve successfully completed. The ONLY training/certification program I recommend is Notary2Pro.

Also, Notary2Pro has ongoing education as well as an excellent Mentoring program. All services provided are reasonably priced (in my opinion). :white_check_mark:

Of course, your best bet would be to visit their website at https://www.notary2pro.com/ , research, and make the choices appropriate for your situation. The training programs by Carol Ray are comprehensive & thorough. :sparkles::tada::sunglasses:

P.S. I receive no compensation or remuneration of any type or kind as a result of my review above.

1 Like

In addition, if I may add, they have a list of companies who happily use their graduates for their signings.

I am not paid by them either :slight_smile:

1 Like

Yes, LindaH-FL, they do (oops, forgot to mention that . . .).

The list of companies that use the Notary2Pro graduates will hire newbies with minimal or no experience. => This opportunity is pure GOLD! Study up, refresh your notes, & let Carol know when your initial few signings are scheduled. She is a wonderful mentor & can be on standby in case you encounter difficulties or have questions during your first few signings. She’s the Best! Her support will help you Build your Confidence in providing this service. :trophy::white_check_mark:

In addition, Notary2Pro does work diligently to keep that list up-to-date regarding vetting and viability. As we all know, some reliable clients and encounter financial difficulties and that, in turn, can negatively impact CNSAs directly.

Appreciate your addition, LindaH-FL. :sparkles::angel::pray:

1 Like

It needs to be negotiated individually when at all possible. Generally speaking, in my experience, a refusal to sign when you have made the trip, is usually paid around half of the agreed fee. (So, for a $150 signing fee you would get $75). I had exactly this happen a few months ago. The signers refused to sign because of something they disagreed with in the numbers. I was paid $75 for that visit. Then, I went back a couple of days later after those numbers had been revised, and got my full $150 fee.

I’ve also had at least three instances where I have printed documents, and the signing has canceled. In each of those cases, I have gotten a $20 print fee.

One time, a title company accidentally double booked the signing with one of their own people, and me. They said they would pay me, and because I do a fair amount of volume with them, I didn’t really want to push the amount. But/and they paid me my full fee, which I really appreciated (my round trip drive to and from that signing location was more than an hour).

I’ve actually never had a signing service or a title company refuse to pay anything when a refuse to sign has happened or printing has happened. But, you can’t presume anything, or that might happen. Clear communication is key. Even in the case of that title company I repeatedly asked what amount I should invoice for, for that double booking situation, and didn’t get a clear answer. And before I ever did get a clear answer I received a check for my full fee. Which was more than fine with me, of course.

Thank you sooo much for this . A company is suggesting paying me 40% if the agreed fee for no shows . I am so angry and sad they can get away with doing this during pandemic. Any advice how to start collection activity now?