Good luck with this, but all I see is “occupational suicide”…here’s why
Title gets package, title reads insert, notifies supervisor or vendor management, title notifies signing service of insert received, signing service removes you from their database, phone stops ringing.
I’ll also suggest proofreading before inclusion if anyone does wish to use this.
Linda ! I understand your fears . Read up on Notary Spot, Notary Pool and other dead beats.
Desperation & Fear !! It is fair to assume that this mindset is rife amongst notaries & in fair probability, has led to this situation. I am attempting to influence a turn around.& try a different approach. Take on this dirty practice of signing services head on. Don’t hesitate ! Don’t Fear . With enough support in all states from notaries. We can set some ground rules of doing business.
. Everyone has their approach. Perhaps the industry will take notice.
By exposing nefarious signing services with the title/LO/disbursement agents the following was accomplished.
I shook up Notary Pool and got my payment in couple days… Notary Spot was dumped by a MAJOR LENDER and they now DO NOT USE signing services at all !! Fees from this lender / title are now much higher and I have had repeat business from them. Of-course in both cases , it was after the fact. Now-a-days, I am pre-empting this and doing inserts only for assignments from signing services , that I DO NOT TRUST.
One major nationwide lender does now offer $120 for standard REFI and payment happens to the notary when settlement/disbursement is done.
If you have been personally been left holding the bag after multiple signings, I am sure you also feel the pain and anger,
If all notaries unite behind a common policy, it will help improve the general health of this industry overall.
The business approach should be, ‘do not work for companies you do not trust’. The agencies that do not pay the notaries were never known for paying a fair price. I understand the wish to insert this letter but do agree with LindaH, this is not the route to take.
BTW - I do want to add one thing here that I was just thinking about…
I have, in the past, been told by the majority of SSs who contracted me to NOT include my business cards with the loan package back to title - their reasoning? The Title company is their client and they feel including the business card is an attempt to market directly to their client. So if they object to the inclusion of a business card in the package, I can only imagine how they’d feel about this type of insert.
This is unprofessional and inappropriate, not to mention notary work suicide. Title companies use signing services because it is easier and quicker for them to get a notary assigned to close their loan. This letter will not make them drop signing services. It may, if enough verbal complaints reach them that a service is not paying, make them change to another signing service. But it is naive to think this will put all signing services out of business.
Just my opinion and take on this. I would never do this!
Every notary is also entitled to prompt payment for services rendered
There is nothing unprofessional to demand payment upon escrow/settlement.
What is unprofessional / illegal / unethical?
Not paying notaries and continuing to cheat notaries nationwide is !
I put these inserts only when the following conditions have been met.
New Signing service contact me & I have not worked in past.
If my requested fees are accepted. ( Usually $110 to $150 or more )
Online reviews reveal a poor track record of payment.
If my Gut feeling says do it…
This works for me >> I HAVE BEEN PAID IN RECORD TIME
A notary / signing agent who put his seal/signature is and integral part of the settlement. A settlement officer/ escrow agent is bound to pay all parties in the settlement process.
By paying an uninvolved party such as a signing service, and escrow creates another escrow to get the notary paid? Is this even legal? Perhaps that might be another topic?
If certain shady title companies are indeed colluding with the signing service & continue to cheat notaries, they should be not in this business ? Are there kickbacks involved for this practice to endure?
If SS or Title choose to NOT engage me in future, after been informed of this fact and if they continue to find guillable notaries to cheat, then these could be grounds to have their title license revoked.
I also don’t want their business any longer.
So Notaries, choose how you do your business?
On fear, and living on a wing & a prayer
Or: Knowing your rights & demanding your agreed fees.
Or: After the fact, but by then these companies might have vanished and reopened under a new name.
I think I have better a chance at lottery.that working for these deadbeats
I totally agree with you notary_narayan… If we could stand united maybe just maybe we as notary would get paid as we deserve. These notaries that accept signing for $30 to $75 dollars is what is hurting us. I will get a call and asking if I will do a signing for $65 -$75 I DO NOT ACCEPT THEM. When I give them my price they say if they get an approval they will call back. I don’t get a call but thats ok I am not going to undersell my services.
You need to include that as the closing agent we have the right if not paid to file a lien on the property.
I despise signing companies and try hard not to do any work for them. Good job on the letter a little wordy tho
No you cannot lien the property. Also, you are not the “closing agent”.
Another signing services “American Signing Connection” also stopped paying and went bust. In fact I am tired and also very frustrated with lack of cohesion and unity amongst notaries,
Can you cite as to why lien cannot be made? Anyone can go to a registers office and file a lien against any unpaid bills. A contractor can file a lien for unpaid work. How does a notary’s profession differ? Printing, travel, time spent etc are all contract work and what makes a notary different and unprotected?
You have no lien rights against the property and no recourse against the borrower because they’ve paid your fee. Your dispute is with the SS/TC, not the borrower.
Not to mention you’ve not done work to the property - the only way you can get any type of lien at all is to get a judgment then record the judgment - but again, that will not be against the borrowers, who have already paid your fee…it will be against the company who contracted you and did not pay you…so it will not be a lien on the borrowers’ property.
Very good point indeed !!
However this notary non payment keeps occuring? What about notary payment when the signer rescinds the loan?
Are notaries supposed to be left holding the bag. Notaries are busy trying to make a buck, that they have stopped thinking of the larger picture for themselves or their kind.
It is each notary for himself/herself.
Title companies have State and National Land Title Associations: That fight and lobby for their industry.
Mortgage Bankers have their Mortgage Bankers Association.
Notaries Don’t have any. This can only be fixed by legislation at state level.
I am going to propose a law in my state and hope you notaries out in different states can take this up with your Local State Elected Assembly member or State Senator to sponsor and change your state laws.
Once my proposed law is drafted, I am going to share it here.
Should a customer directly pay a notary?
Should a title company directly pay a notary performing the work?
Should a signing service be a regulated and licensed entity in the state in which they are operating?
(Other than a glorified messenger, what other value signing service adds? One may argue on their behalf, One may argue against) . IMO, for very little value of co-ordinating and finding a suitable notary, their greed and operating overheads adds unnecessary service fees to customers. and multiple incidents of notay payment defaults. These could all be addressed by automation and technology.
These are some of the questions I am considering while drafting this law to present to my lawmakers.
I wish you luck with this but keep one thing in mind.
You’re talking several different issues here
Your notary legislative body will not want to address the loan side of the work you do or your independent contractor/business issues. Those will be overseen by other areas of your government. And be careful how much government oversight you seek…you may get more than you bargained for.
The only other thing I can suggest is be careful who you work for…be careful how much you extend yourself to a new-to-you company until they establish a good track record; and structure your fees based on the job to be performed…for example
General notary work - paid at the table
Loan signings - net 30 days - and make sure your fees are reflective of the work you’re asked to do
My personal policy: Loan App signings are payable in advance - I have no guarantee the loan will ever close and I will not extend myself and risk not getting paid.
Do NOT take every job that crosses in front of you - do your research - knowledge is power and you’ll cut your losses by doing this. And if all notaries did this the non-payers would be out of business quickly.
JMO
If you do work at a residence or commercial company and you are never paid and have exhausted all attempts to collect in the state of Texas you can file a lien
I would love to learn who the major nationwide lender is, I’m in the Portland Oregon area and it’s low balling all day, day in and day out. Are you willing to share your find?
I totally agree with you. Even as a newbie, I still need to be paid a decent wage for my services, which costs a bit to obtain, considering the certifications, equipment and supplies needed to perform the signings. If I do a thorough job, why should I have to do 75 signings to finally get a higher fee? I can think of no other professional service that aligns itself with this mindset. I refuse to drive an hour for 50 bucks. It’s insulting.
Yep, dont take it
You are a business and like all business do, this is how you value and price yourself.
Your Cost ( Gas/ Print/ Etc )
Whenever I have unpaid fees, I threatened to take the company to court. That has always worked!
Letting them know your next call is the title company or lender on the order also helps. If they want to keep their customers they need to honor and respect the services you did and they collected on. Title companies pay them so there is no reason why you shouldn’t be paid timely when they have already been paid.
That is because the contractor had an agreement with the home owners directly. We are contracting with 2nd and 3rd parties. Our gripe is with the SS or the Title company not the home owner. The home owner already paid for everything in their closing costs.