Sticking together...(or falling apart)

PSAs and News
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I believe the reason why we are seeing so many low rates coming in from these signing agencies is because Notaries are accepting them.

I’ve heard other notaries complain about it, but I’m seeing it first hand now as a newbie myself.

Assignments for $35.00 & $40.00 is not worth the trip in my estimation. Even if you’re not printing the documents, I’ve had instances where the Gas to get to the assignment cost $10.00, and the tolls it cost we’re well over $20.00 for a round trip. Other than that, it cost almost 2 hours of travel time between, driving to the assignment, signing the documents and travelling back. You could make more money per/hour working at a fast food restaurant.

Meanwhile the signing agencies do little more than funnel the work your way and collect $150 - $200 from the title companies.

Am I the only one that thinks we need to stick together? If notaries accept signings for these low rates, they not only do themselves a disservice they pull down the whole system of Notary Signing Agents being able to make a living. This is not a side gig for everybody. Comments?

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I have never accepted signings for less than $100.00. I used to do closings for $75.000 until one day one title company made a mistake and put the amount to the signing company labelled as notary fee… The amount showed on the hud was $340.00. I have also seen multiple times the signing company tried to pay me $60 or less and i see on the hud where they get paid for the closing between 250 and as high as $600. Believe me the signing company hates when a title company itemize the notary fee on the hud. They do not want you to see that at all. I have also seen company send an order on snapdocs for $50.00. After few hours when nobody takes it. They increase the fee to $100. Guys if you keep accepting these orders it will never change. You can keep struggling if you want to… The signing company is making a killing by making one phone call and you have the burden. Out of that 65 dollars or less you have to pay for printing, paper, electric, gas, wear and tear on your car, tolls, faxback and even worse the 2 hrs it take to travel, explain the docs and complete the job. At first I was nervous not taking them. Initially the amount of orders i received was drastically reduced but over time i was able to demand the higher amount. Now I get paid an average of $125 to $150. When those individuals are doing three closings i am doing one to make the same amount. If they want to be an idiot and take those low ball fees let them let them do. Quite often I see one come over snapdocs for 50 or 60 dollars say for 3pm tomorrow. Someone will take it and a hour later i see another one for the same time tomorrow for 100 or 125. I will obviously take that one. So another way i look at it is the idiots who take them are leaving the good ones that pay higher for me. Guys it may hurt at first but in the long run it will pay off. Today, i did 3 closings that totalled $425.00. How long will it take you to make $425 doing 35 or 40 dollar closing.When i have a busy day i make more. Sooner or later the ones who are taking the 30-65 dollar closings will realize they are working for minimum wage. I really cant understand how you can survive on those fees

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Let’s not forget federal taxes on the net income (together with state income tax if it applies in your state) - and/or if you choose to pay the SE Tax (toward social security) rather than take the exemption for it; at the low fees offered, after all is said and done, you’re better off flipping burgers at McDonalds for minimum wage - at least you may get benefits and don’t have to chase your money

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You are so correct. At least at Mc Donalds you may get health benefits. I just set my limit and when anyone call me with those fees I tell them right up front what my fees are and i will not accept any less. I tell them if they cant afford to pay me then no worries just give it to the next person(Idiot). I Tell some companies please put my fee in there database. I know when they are calling me they already know i will not accept any less so they don’t negotiate.

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There was a time when $150 was base fee with docs overnighted to you. That was 20 years ago. And we were treated with respect. Then came edocs @ $50. The only thing that has changed in the intervening 20 years is more idiots who don’t know their value have entered the field and companies have learned (because they were taught by us) that some fool will accept far less.

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Well, I hear what everyone is saying, but you really have to individually determine what you can and cannot do in your particular area.

I won’t take less than $65 on small document (seller closings or application signing) or sometimes even on no-print closings. I am about 2.5 - 3 miles from the expressway (I-75) and even further to any neighborhoods. So for me to leave home, I must make that minimum. However, my sister, who will take cheaper paying jobs (as low as $45) stays busy and drives all over town but lives in the middle of the city. She will also go to neighboring cities.

Want to know what she made as opposed to what I do any typical month? She has made up to and above $8,000 in one month although her typical is closer to $5000+. My highest has been $3,600 and my typical is just under $2,000. Based on that, taking those lower paying jobs has boosted her bottom line. Yes, she paid out much more than I did. But believe me, she made an excellent income even after paying taxes, medicare and SS. I can live on less, she has a family to support with a larger mortgage payment so she does run after her money…literally.

I will say, though. That some of these companies I do repeat business with, started me at a lower fee ($75) and have automatically boosted me to a higher fee ($95) after working with them for 6 or 8 months because I provide error-free work. I also know that some agencies lowball the title companies with their fees ($150-160 per closing, in some cases), to get the volume. So, not all signing agencies will get those higher fees.

So, in conclusion, each person needs to determine whether volume vs. running around like a madperson, cost of supplies, gas and maintenance make taking cheaper closings worth it to you, in your area. Seeing all of these comments are awesome and I understand how taking lower fees could screw people up. It really helps us within our isolated work environments to know the issues within our industry. But you still have to make the decision for yourself how best to manage your business to be the most profitable and not feel bad about how you choose to run your business.

Unfortunately, as a newbie, you sometimes have to take the lower paying jobs. I remember when I started, I took them so if I messed something up, I wouldn’t loose a good client! Yet, someone who is in a rural area, might require only the higher paying jobs because of the distances driven, etc.

Being flexible, learning as much as you can from other notaries, building relationships, and knowing your numbers are what you need to be successful in this business. I’d rather have the lower pay, flexibility and autonomy (no boss) of working as a notary signing agent than working at McDonald’s (jk) any day at my current NSA income. But…that is just me!.

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Hi Gladys,

Thanks for the comments. I do understand that it is a delicate balance and it requires experience to master the ebbs and flows of the different agencies you work with. A good reputation, professional work and networking are the pillars we should all be building our business on. And I know that takes time. Yes as a newbie I realize I will have to suck it up for a few months or even a year or two. But I am thinking down the road.

We all want to make money, but like your friend, if we start accepting these fees, what’s next when they decide to lower it past $45.00? Its not just about Gross, but its about Net. I’ve seen fees coming in as low as $35.00 down from $90-$150 a few years ago. There is absolutely no justification for taking an assignment that low.

Its great your friend made a good income, wish I could pull in $8k in a month…lol.

Problem with other notaries accepting these low fees is that it lowers the ceiling for all notaries everywhere. Because the signing agencies don’t care what state your in. If they can get a refinance done for $50.00 in Texas, they will offer a notary in New York the same fee.

I have also learned its okay to say no to some jobs. Its okay to wait. Its okay to be picky.

Let’s stick together and maximize our earning potential. As a presidential hopeful once said, we are stronger together.

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Yes, I agree that notaries need to stick together.

I am newer and I took my first few jobs for $75 with one particular company. The next time they threw me a $75 job, I counteroffered with $130 and got it. They also sent me a contract with the lowers fees so they could contact me directly with jobs. I did NOT agree to the $60 fees and put my minimum as $100. Time will tell on this one.

I countered a $90 job for $125 yesterday and got it. If you can counteroffer for a higher fee, do it. I work hard so I’m not willing to do $50 and $60 jobs because it’s not worth my effort or the travel time. It just is not.

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I am constantly receiving requests for signings that the signing agency only wants to pay 65.00 or less for. I’m in a rural area, in a small town. Most of the requests I receive require a minimum 1 hour drive to get there. Most are closer to 1.5 hours on rural country highways, gravel and dirt roads, then an hour doing the signing and the 1.5 hours back. Add in the time to print, and typically a call to find out when the docs will be available, and I’ve invested between 4 - 5 hours in a single signing. Factor in gas, paper, toner, 65.00 isn’t happening.

I had a request to do a signing out in the middle of nowhere, with a very low ball offer. I stated what my fee would be. A day or so later I received a call from another signing company, same job I’m sure (the community was way to small for it not to have been), I stated my fee. The next day I received another call, different signing company, same job. Five days after the first call I received a call from the title company, who found me here on Notary Cafe. I quoted my fee, they had no problem with it. This has happened several times.

I agree that we need to stick together and stop accepting the low rates. It hurts everyone, except the signing companies.

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For her to make $8,000 a month doing $45 closing she would have to have done 177 closing a month that is 35 closing a week or 7 closings a day. She would have to be working like a slave. Blessings to her. at my 125-150 for the same number of closings i would have made 26,550 for the month. To make 8 thousand a month which i do easily i would only need to do 3 closings a day. Big difference. I get to go home with no stress. Blessings to her she can keep on working like a slave.

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As long as you all keep accepting it. It will never stop. You may get turned down a few times and they will give it to someone else. But if each and everyone do the same they will have no choice but to increase the fee back to 100 or 150. I assure you one thing they wont be rip[ping me off.

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they will toss the low fee around until someone take it. When no one takes it then they go higher. They do this everyday

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This hits the nail on the head.

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Well, as I said, it is different for different areas and different people. She does some lower paying jobs, but of course, she has her regulars and brokers she works with. She has been doing this since 2005 so she has built up some clientele.

The only point I am trying to make is that the forums are great for helping us understand what our business models and goals are or should be. But, we also have to accommodate our personal goals and make sure we are growing in our business and that we are able to survive with our income. Sometimes, you cannot cherry-pick if you want to earn a living.

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I disagree that you cannot cherry pick and still make a living. For example, does she take those little $50 gigs for a reverse mortgage where she is traveling an hour to get there, and an hour back? Or, is that $50 gig a two page signing five or ten miles from where she lives? There is a big difference between the two.

In my example, the first $50 gig would have the notary losing money, the second one probably not.

Now, as a new notary, the first few gigs I accepted were about $75-$80 to get my foot in the door. My average at this time is about $90, but I have gotten a gig as high as $130 by counter-offering.

By the same token, when I move (in a few weeks) I will be living about a five minute drive from First American Title who has their agents come into their office to do the signings. Their in office service is $50. However, if you receive electronic documents and you have fax backs, the total fee is $90. I’m sure you can negotiate as well.

Will I go for the $50 gig?

Heck yeah, because it’s down the street and all I have to do is show up and do my job. No mileage, printing, or other time involved. The local FAT is also part of the community and I want to get my foot in the door.

So, while there are extenuating circumstances, I don’t believe it is profitable to actually build one’s business around low ball fees, especially when you are printing out documents, preparing beforehand, and putting wear and tear on your car. In the end, this is a big loss to the notary.

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Well, the extenuating circumstances could be the difference between making it and not. Could you live on $1,000 to prove your point? I couldn’t and I wouldn’t. And, if I lived in a rural area (which already has a low volume) I would definitely “command” the higher fees. But the point is, pick an amount that works for you and do what you have to do. Areas are different, people’s circumstances are different and unless the NNA really moves things to protect its notaries, individually, it is not going to happen. The signing services need regulation and as individuals, we cannot do that either. So again, a political entity like NNA has to stand up on our behalf.

Again, just my own humble opinion.

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$1,000 a month? I’m not sure where that figure is coming from. :slight_smile:

The only point I have to prove is that I believe surviving on low-ball fees is a loss in the end when it comes to money, car wear and tear, paper, supplies, etc., and I will add that it’s a loss to your own energy as well because you have to work an awful lot at such low fees to make good money.

It sounds like the person you are talking about has enough experience to where she could actually survive on higher paying jobs no matter what the area. But, you’re right, you have to do what works best for you.

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I totally agree, we must stick together as notaries and be firm on our fees.

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I’m new also and feel the same way. It is discouraging, though. I’m hoping that with time and perseverance, things will get better.

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Thanks for the pep talk. Well said.