Bringing a "trainee" to a closing

Notary Experiences
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Yesterday, I conducted a closing that required witnesses, a Florida property. The witness that buyer had contacted was unable to make it. As luck (?) would have it, these signers were closing on TWO properties, and the signings were scheduled back-to-back. (Florida first with me then a Texas property with the 2nd notary, and while Florida properties usually require witnesses to certain recordable documents, Texas does not.) The same SS assigned the two closings with two notaries. It was all good. The second notary could function as a witness to the Florida property closing I conducted.

I worked with the signers to sign all that they needed to sign and we held the documents that required witnesses until the end of their closing when the other notary arrived. Again, all good. The borrowers were fine. That is, they were fine until the 2nd notary appeared with his trainee in tow. I could tell by the looks on their faces that they (the borrowers) were not expecting anyone else to attend these closings.

Everything I’ve ever read/learned/studied is that we (as notaries) are never to bring anyone with us to closings unless that person is a witness to the transaction, then the borrowers, the title company, the lender, and whoever else is aware of that added presence.

I was stunned, but I don’t know the full scope of the Texas closing, so I didn’t say anything about the “trainee.” That is, I didn’t do or say anything until the trainee starts chatting up the borrowers WHILE I’m having them and the other witness/notary sign documents.

I finish my work and get ready to leave, and the borrowers are just looking at me like, “what the hell is going on here?..” I had no answer.

I posted this scenario to a Facebook group yesterday, and I was hit with a ton of people telling me to mind my own business, that we (as notaries) run our own businesses, and can do whatever we want with those businesses and handle anyway we wish. Lastly, I was reminded that stipulations/circumstances could have been in place that I didn’t know anything about. Of course, that could be true.

You all are much more mature and seasoned group of professionals here. I deleted the FB post and came over here. Should I have minded my own business? Have the notarial standards relaxed enough that we don’t 'have to follow those stated rules any longer? Am I being a “Karen”?

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I would like to hope that the second notary screened the “trainee” with title/SS before bringing them along - or maybe the TX property docs did require a witness too. Perhaps this “trainee” is a business partner with the notary (probably not, but possible). In truth, unless the extra person is approved by hiring party then no, you don’t bring any “trainee” to a transaction that they have no role in. I feel bad for the signers being so caught off-guard.

I’m sorry you got treated so badly in the FB group and glad you found us. I have never joined a FB group and have not missed being there - I’ve heard some horrible and bizarre things coming off those groups…except the ones run by those truly in the know. I stick with this forum and Notary Rotary.

Caveat: Have not done loan signings personally for several years now but keep up with the forums.

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No, you are not being a “Karen.” It is not appropriate for a notary to bring along a “trainee” due to privacy concerns. We handle NPPI and witnesses or trainees should not be privy to that information. In the case of a required witness – have the witness present ONLY for the document(s) requiring that witness. Other than that, the witness should be thanked and asked to wait out of hearing range (i.e. in the car or outside, etc.) or be excused to leave. Trainees should NEVER be brought along.

I wonder if the SS and TC were notified that the 2nd notary would be accompanied by a trainee … ?

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I don’t know if the TC or SS knew … I was wondering if I should say something. Maybe then(!) I’d become a Karen. :slight_smile:

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What do you gain mentioning it? If you don’t know the conditions under which that person was there I’d leave it alone but that’s just me.

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I don’t know… Maybe doing my tiny part to keep the industry ethical and accountable? For what it’s worth, this scenario (the trainee), comes off two closings on Friday where there was potential fraud at play (adult son trying to get his mom to sign a POA so he could sell her house). She didn’t know what she was signing. And a second signing where the signer didn’t have an ID and the signing service said a birth certificate ONLY was sufficient to identify the signer. I didn’t sign either of these. The first? The title company thanked me (for doing my job), and the second said they’d get another notary

But then, maybe I’m too picky. :woman_shrugging:t2:

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Dear Karen. As you should probably know, your trainee is going to be undercutting you on every income opportunity that comes your way. Every notary in your ZIP code is a threat to your business, so why train more of them?

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Here’s my two cents: I find it completely unacceptable that another notary, who was also acting as a witness, would bring a third party, a trainee, to your signing without first obtaining your explicit consent and the approval of the signers involved. As @yolicue so aptly pointed out with the mention of “NPPI,” it is our fundamental duty and ethical obligation as notaries to meticulously safeguard the sensitive personal information of the individuals we serve. The presence of an unapproved third party poses a significant risk to this confidentiality, and such actions should never be tolerated within our profession.

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Yeah, like what fletcher said! Agree completely.