This was great to read as a new signing agent, trying to understand what is a fair price without missing out on any jobs is tough. I read comments about new signing agents and I find it hard because even though I am new I have a college education and value being proficient and making sure my signings are top notch. Being new does not mean you are not good or are worth any less in pay. I know we all started out new once. It would be great if there was a solid law that made companies pay a fair price across the board for every service since there are so many other laws to oversee all the aspects of our job. Thank you so much for this open letter and I hope it does not fall on deaf ears.
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Great Letter! I’m all For this Letter I would sign up to send this also! Can we agree on Prices as a Whole Industry? Would be great to start fees at $200 , everything else is going up and gas prices are not stable nor other supplies!
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I concur. I hope your meeting goes well and please keep us updated on the outcome. As a new signing agent, this has been my number one area of concern. It is tough when you are new, but everyone is at one time. Pricing is key to succeeding in this industry. While I need the business, I do not want to undersell my services by accepting too low of a price for signing services. I do feel that signing agencies have tried to give me low ball offers which makes me feel taken advantage of already (no respect).
Cost (my out of pocket, vehicle maintenance, fuel,time, etc.) is the driving force behind my pricing. I will not take anything less than $125.00, but my asking price is $150.00, which I think is a bit low. I am backing this letter and as a new signing agent, appreciate the breakdown and how to price myself so that I remain competitive.
I am professional in my services and looks, but have to build myself and my business. If I do not respect myself and what I do, no one else will and I won’t be able to expect them to either. Thank you!
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Thank you for this letter. Please don’t forget the number of companies that want to delay paying the notary for 30+ days. One company even tried to justify it by telling me that they couldn’t pay any sooner because they had to get paid first! This same company has a pay policy that works like this: if a job is completed March 1st, it gets paid out on April 30th, and you will receive it sometime in May via a check in the mail.
No! I think it’s bullsh… to expect the lowest invoice in the whole transaction to have to wait 30 - 90 days before they are compensated. Office Depot, the local gas station, and my E&O company didn’t wait for me to get paid before they provided what I needed. I had to pay up front. I’m expected to allow these signing services to keep MY money for well beyond what is reasonable. I’m pretty sure that they have been paid within about 3 days to maybe, just maybe 14 days. Also, some of these companies that want to pay less than half of what a job is worth, by offering to pay via “weekly pay”! Another ripoff scheme. Why should anyone take a $60 job, (at a loss), just so they can get paid that $60 within a week. Yes, you can negotiate a higher amount, but then the company penalizes you by making you wait more than 30 days to get your money. If that company could pay me $60 in a week, then they can certainly pay me the actual value of my services in that same time frame.
A LOT can happen in that 30+ days. Companies go out of business; owners get sick and don’t have contingency plans in place, etc., etc., etc. Anyway, it takes far too long to get paid a $75-$150 payment.
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I applaud your effort! Very well said! I attempted this a couple of months ago with a signing service. I sent a letter and received a phone call to discuss the exact same issues. I’m sad to say that my effort didn’t end as I had hoped. I am still active with this signing service, however, I only receive last minute assignments that I 100% of the time decline because they will only provide the type of loan and zip code of the location to accept the assignment. I hope that you have a better outcome. I have drastically decreased the number of signing services that I work with. My focus is direct contracts going forward.
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Great Letter, and I concur wholeheartedly we all need to pull together and demand both more respect and more money! At the same time, we need to ensure we are continually providing the best possible service, so our profession is always represented in the best possible manner.
I’ve decided to only work with only a select few companies, and my decision is based on the following factors:
- Offering Rate
- Requirement to leave a Blank Package (I will no
longer print an additional set for $100 or less) - Types of Packages Assigned (# of
pages/Notarial Acts/corrections required, etc) - Payment Frequency
- General Attitude
- Unreasonable Requests
- Proactive and Timely Communication
- Ethics
I choose to not deal with the arrogance, lack of concern and professionalism many of these title/signing companies possess.
Also, I’m done with going over and beyond the call of duty, and receiving zero gratitude in the process. I’ve saved many files from being cancelled/suspended because I acted promptly and proactively, and I am sure most in my situation have taken the same amount of care and concern.
For example, I don’t ever give advice or an opinion, but will proactively, diligently and promptly contact all parties to ensure a resolution is reached with the borrower so the signing is not canceled or postponed: often times, waiting around at the signing 2 hours or more for the hiring companies (title/signing co’s) to correct their mistakes or clarify any issues or misunderstandings with the Borrowers. Meanwhile, my entire day is spent driving like a mad man trying to fulfill all of my obligations to please everyone, with not even a Thank You in return.
This is a highly stressful profession, and most of it is due to the hiring companies lack of care, not fulfilling their requirements, sending documents late and/or with mistakes that take time and effort to correct.
Ultimately, we are the messengers who end up getting shot or thrown under the bus at the end.
Of course, within our profession there are those signing agents who do not represent the majority in the best possible light.
I’ve been told nightmare stories about NSA’s not showing up or calling, wearing highly unprofessional attire and completely rendering documents useless after they attempted to perform their Notarial Acts. I hope those NSA’s are the exception. Everyone makes a seldom mistake, but most good NSA’s will correct them immediately.
Ultimately, it would greatly serve us to stand together, united and strong to attain more favorable conditions. Alternatively, we will allow this profession to continue free-falling into the abyss as evidenced in recent years by the higher demands matched with dwindling offering rates.
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OMG yes… I have been thinking this for years !!! Amen
I work my tush off for 950 signings a year… and I have to fight for an extra $10 … it kills me. I made one mistake all of last year of those 950.
You’re awesome !!!
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Great letter! I agree with everything that is in the letter, but will point out that I’ve spent as much as 3 or more hours with Borrowers; as you stated wanting to read each page, or just elderly, disabled and have difficulties in signing, which I believe in giving good customer service. I’ve been in areas that required electronic signatures and internet had unstable connection. Not to mention driving around well over the time to find the location because loss of electronic directions. I say all this not as complaining, I do enjoy the what I do… for instance, I have no problem traveling 100+ miles to close a loan. My issue is being rightly compensated for distance and other unforeseen issues that may occur, i.e., again as you stated, more than one signer, needing witness (which I’ve had borrowers tell me to bring because they did have one) more than the hour and over driving. There should not be one signing agent/notary that should not be on board with this. Otherwise you’re like the hamster, spinning the wheel, going no where. Again I stand with you and certainly appreciate the opportunity to utilize this letter in the same manner. I will like to stay abreast as to your outcome for the whom you’re meeting with. Thank you for opening this dialogue.
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There are several including the transportation industry. however even those costs are somewhat exaggerated. Cost of printing is only around .05 per page, it does not cost me .55 per mile, I average closer to .45 and if you combine your time efficiently, in your travels you can trim probably 30 min off the time. That being said, I seldom accept orders under $100 and usually try to negotiate $125 - $150, unless I’m stacking orders to maximize my revenue. Changing times require some creativity.
I’m not sure if you previously said but just but what state do you live in? I live on California and am trying to gauge what my expenses might be.
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Very well written. Get this out to NNA and SOS. I started in 2002, the signing was $150 to 250 and no such thing as printing Edocs. Title will overnight the docs. No scan backs. Sign and mail. Flash forward 20 years later and its $75 plus printing 300 pages and scan back 150 pages. Something is very very wrong with this picture. I do not work for free. Enough said.
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I agree with this letter and we all have to stand together to get higher fees! I recently sent a note to a signing company to increase my fee by $10 and pointing out the cost of increase in gas, toner, paper etc. They agreed but every time I get an order from them at the original fee I have to request an increase this is time consuming and absurd! They just need change my rate in there system! I would and will support this letter going to ALL Signing Companies!
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it’s been some time since the original letter was posted…Where’s the REPLY ?
Good Morning Dustin,
Thank you for all of this detail. This is most helpful. I am so sorry that this has been your experience. I will work to further investigate this and circle back with you by the end of the week.
Above is what I received on the 26th of April, no reply as of yet. Until the signing agencies find it difficult or impossible to book signing agents for so little compensation they are not going to be in a hurry to pay us what we deserve.
I am contemplating a local Notary Association in hopes to get as many local NSAs on board in signing a base fee commitment letter. (I, Mobile Notary will not take an order for less than $X) Start local and we can take back our industry.
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I sent the email below over this morning…I will post the reply. I also didn’t bother redacting the companies name, many of you will figure it out from their initials…I wouldn’t normally toss an agency under the bus, but I think it is important to know which companies are willing to use and abuse their notaries.
Good Morning,
Just touching bases, wanted to see if there has been any further discussion on the fees being offered. I continue to receive requests for under $100, there is not a single notary in the area that can make any profit when accepting offers under $100. I have done the math over and over again, I have my costs as low as they can get and many of the offers coming from MC would have us not only making less than minimum wage but many of them would have me paying out of pocket to complete the order. While I understand that there is obviously someone willing to work for next to nothing or even pay to work, this will not lead to good things for any of us involved.
I attached an order from this morning, this order @$125 would pay about $8-$10 per hour. 2 hours of travel, 1 hour signing, 30 minutes of misc. $25 to print. 90 miles $50, $125-$75-$15 = $35 divided by 3.5 hours is $10. I can go make sandwiches at Subway for $12.75….
I want to be part of the solution, if there is anything that we can do together to change this it will in the end benefit us all. In the end the lender expects a professional to meet face to face with their clients and it is going to be impossible to find any professional willing to work for $10 per hour while risking everything as a self employed business owner.
Dustin
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I am also from Louisiana and complete agree with your statement about the difficulty to becoming a notary! With that being said, do you mind sharing more information about Single Source with me?
Just be aware that you may be getting a call from the Dept of Justice for attempting to price-fix.
Don’t laugh. It already happened when the NNA had the audacity to post a (some descriptive word like preferred or suggested) Price List for various types of signings (that was ignorant of reality by assuming that travel time/mileage were non-factors). They pulled it quickly, but a number of notaries (the vocal ones objecting to this nonsense) got calls from the DOJ.
They may call, but this letter and subsequent discussion doesn’t fit the definition for price fixing. That’s more like Google and Bing colluding to fix the price of internet search engines to squeeze out competition from new/smaller companies who might offer services at a cheaper rate. This might be seen as labor organizing, were it not for the fact that we are independent contractors and not employees. I would not be deterred.
Great letter. Most of the high points in your letter are covered. There are a few other costs that I would suggest if you have further discussions. Depending on where we get assignments we may have to pay for parking (in downtown Seattle that can be upwards of $20/hr), or ferry crossings (round trip can easily cost +$30). This adds another hidden cost which is time! Most companies expect completion status and/or scan backs within 90 minutes to 2 hrs. Really!? Not meeting that standard can cost your quality standing, thereby reducing your opportunity selection. I’ve had these discussions too. I’m with you on this.
Cj gueldner and I are trying to start a non profit corporation for Notaries that truly looks out for our interests. We have a posting on this.
Robert malek 7187574473
This happened years before either Snap Docs or Signing Order existed. While I do understand your frustration with the low fees being offered, I also understand that even $100 will be laughably low in some areas/situations/etc./etc./etc. The reverse is true. If someone offered me $50 to print 2 pages, 1 of which is the shipping label and the signer lived across the street and I could ship it ‘whenever I was already out shipping something’…I would say yes, wouldn’t you? IMO, there are just way too many variables to be able to mandate a minimum acceptable-to-all fee. And there’s always the danger that $100 would magically become the ‘standard’. Um, no.
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