I am so tired of signing companies cheating us of what we are entitled to. Did you know the realtor is paid a few grand the title co makes at least a thousand The lawyer makes 250.00! So why should we be paid the lowest as WE ARE IN THE TRENCH’s In awful smelling signing sites and nothing happens without us. We get blamed when title co makes mistakes and I as I see it we are abused and stomped on by every aspect of our jobs.
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We are abused. Very simple, I get paid 150-200 per signing simply because they know i will not take less. These are the same signing companies that are paying other notaries the 65 or 85 dollar fee. You do hold the golden ticket. IF no one takes the 65 dollar they will have no choice but to pay the appropriate fee. As long as there are people out there willing to take it. It will never stop.I dont know how much more to preach it. I have been there before. I got fed up and took a stand. Yes i did loose some business initially. The ones i get now make up for those lost ones. when i do a signing for 200. and you taking it for 65. you would have to do 3 closings to make the same for the one i just did. I don’t know what it will take for these notaries to understand these signing companies are using and abusing them and then shitting on them by not paying them or paying them when and if they feel like it.
Only you hold the GOLDEN TICKET. I can tell you one thing, I am holding mine
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So agree. Been doing this for nearly 25 years and watching newbies accept fees of less than I was paid back then. The hard part is getting newbs on board. Appreciate your contribution to their education.
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I concur with your sentiment. If we can get the newbies to stop accepting these low ball offers, we as a whole, will all see improved wages across the board. We (personally) will not leave the house for less than $125 for a local refi, add to that mileage, large package fee, faxback/scanback fee and the fact that we service a remote area, it is not unusual for our fee to “exceed” what the mobile notary fee is listed on the CDF. Guess what, we get our fee. These signing companies are just looking for someone to take the job. Companies like Snapdocs, Coast2Coast etc, are last ditch brokers. They are the ones the bigger companies “toss” these signings to when the bigger signing companies can’t get someone for the low ball fee. You are in the drivers seat then, Hold your ground, Don’t cheap out and risk your commission, vehicle, your reputation as well as your E&O just to get a signing. Make them accept your offer not the other way around. You are the one who will get “docked fees” if there are mistakes, Do this a few time and guess what, you become the go to mobile notary and you will get the pay your deserve as well as the respect. We’ve (husband/wife team) been doing this for nearly 30 years and have see it happen many time over. IF you want the low ball offer and you can justify your costs to do the service, go ahead, but know this, very seldom, if ever do the contracting services lose money. They will work very hard to find a cheap mobile notary and when this happens and it does, mistakes are made and often we end up having to go back and re-sign, re-do the work and the contracting agencies and title companies end up paying much more than if they had just offered an appropriate fee to begin with.
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But if I don’t take the $80 signings, they won’t come back with $150, because someone else will take it. There’s too many notaries out there.
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This is the problem. When business is slow, signing agents tend to accept a “low ball” signing just to get money in. They feel that anything beats a “zero” and that they can keep their skills up. You can elect not to take a “low ball” signing; however, whose to say that the “high rollers” are going to call you or that you can catch their texts or emails in time to get the signing for yourself. Myself, half of the time, if I am a second off, the signing that was text to me is taken by someone else and I have encoded in my phone all the notifications that are possible to tell me that I have a signing offer. This the case, signing agents get frustrated and will just go ahead and take the low ballers. This keeps the low ballers in tact with their prices. Just like it was mentioned earlier, notaries are keeping the “low baller” in business by accepting their signings. Just remember, at the end of the month, something is better than nothing and it will all add up and pay a bill!
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I love the wisdom of people who have been signing agents for a long time, but there is another perspective–we (new agents) need to get our foot in the door as we work to get direct clients. I understand direct clients as being title companies.
I have contacted title companies directly and been able to get on with only one, and the rest say I need 1 to 2 years of experience and X number of signings before I can become one of their contractors.
I do some work for Snapdocs, Xome, Pro-link, but at this time I accept $90 and on up. Nothing less. I counter offer on Snapdocs and sometimes get it, sometimes not. I often intentionally turn down a low ball fee from a paying company telling them to raise their fee (I’ve seen them comply). A company offered $60 for a refi in an area miles from anywhere and I told the company they needed to pay $150-$200 for that package/area, and someone else ended up taking it at the lower fee. Very sad.
In fact, I was just looking at my database. I’ve been in business since August 15, 2017 and have completed 16 signings with one of my calendar for tomorrow. The first 2 I did were for $75 each, but I started counter-offering and getting $90 and up to $130.
I love the activism and tenacity of seasoned notaries, but how are new notaries supposed to get experience if we accept nothing but $100 an up? Please, seasoned notaries, tell me how this works. I really want to learn here.
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Thank you! This is helpful and makes sense!
I was told right away that it’s not necessary to take the low ball fees, but that as a new agent it might be beneficial to work for a bit of lower fee.
For example, I am fine with $90 from Xome because they are an excellent company, professional, pay on time, and a joy to work with. They give me a lot of work too for my remote area.
My plan is to raise my prices as I get more experience under my belt and to get on with the title companies as soon as I can.
However, I never take a loan signing for less than $90.
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This has not always been my experience with Snapdocs. I once countered a $90 offer for $135 and got an immediate call back that they would accept my offer. More counter-offers have been met more often than not.
I think not accepting lowball offers is a chance you have to take. I think new notaries, me included, need to trust the process by not accepting low fees. I accepted $75 for the first 2 signings, then no more. It’s too much work for a low fee.
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It just takes time. You have to hang in there. It sounds like you are doing the right thing. But remember what has been said here…its okay to get a little experience under your belt but then set your fees and stick with it. We are professionals who work hard and spend a lot to be in this. Some may not treat us very well, but there are other companies who do!
Thank you!
For example, today a $100 order came through for a remote area, so I countered with $125 and got it right away. So, while I might take those $90 from Xome simply because I love them for their steadiness and professionalism, any other company I generally ask for $100 or above. More times than not I get the job. In fact. since 8/15, tomorrow I will have closed 17 loans. May not be much to some people, but it’s a business getting off the ground for me. 
You, and others, are spot on about the abuse and low fees. As far as holding the Golden Ticket, this simply is not true. The industry is awash with notaries with many more joining our ranks everyday. And why not? The startup cost is simply an NSA certificate and a notary license and possibly a printer if you don’t already have one. What we are facing is quite simple and as old as time itself…SUPPLY AND DEMAND! It explains everything…low wages, poor treatment and so on. If you wanted your lawn mowed and you placed a sign on your property “accepting bids on Monday”, come Monday you would have a dozen or so landscapers parked in front of your house and you would choose the best price and if they don’t work out move on to the next one. Blaming NSA’s for accepting lower fees is unfair, it’s the market place at work. We could hold the Golden Ticket if we were organized and had a fee schedule that everyone had to abide by. Impossible you say? Try conducting a real estate transaction with a full service broker for less than 6%. The Realtor industry is a model of a non-union entity that sets and keeps it’s commission no matter what. It is national and there is almost 100% compliance. How did they get there?
And, they need us to consummate the transaction so they can collect their 6%.
The National Notary Association is an organization I respect and if there is anyone who can organize a national effort for fee stabilization it is them. However, if you read the Notary Best Practices/Code of Conduct you will see that it is clearly stated
that we should not in any way make any attempt to manipulate fees. Why? This is contradictory to our best interests. What does the Realty industry know that we don’t? Food for thought. I welcome your civil comments.
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Not to get into another “newbie” debate here but a SS did tell me something when I was very new regarding low fees being a self-fulfilled prophecy of “seasoned” signing agents.
My personal experience first: It took me weeks to get someone, anyone to answer a question as to how to put signings in order from most time consuming to least time consuming (on average) to help me set my pricing. I didn’t ask for $$$$ values (and that’s based a lot on geographical areas anyway) but rather how to price high to low so #1 I wasn’t getting ripped off and #2 so I wasn’t hurting the industry. I got an answer. A good one. But. It. Took. Weeks! And many, many FB posts to get it!! How many new people don’t know how to price according to DIFFICULTY? Lots–that’s how many–then they get stuck in a rut that luckily I was able NOT to get stuck in. I realize not helping people in your geographical area due to competition but–the posts all over the place about how “newbies” are ruining the industry–maybe pointing them in the right direction might be helpful. Do you really THINK they want to work for $65 a signing??? Most are in an unpaid internship at those prices.
Additional note: People here are saying years and years of experience. Try to take a look at this from people coming in BRAND NEW. They can’t command $150 for signings–not in the beginning. This is NOT the same industry that people started in 25 years ago. I think some lifetime signing agents forget that breaking in is so much more difficult now than it was before. And yes, there are too many SA’s–SA’s getting lured in by promises of hundreds of thousands of dollars to be made…desperate people? Uneducated people? IDK but they are being lied to in many places, as I’m sure you know.
SO HERE IS THE SS OWNER’S STATEMENT TO ME:
SS owner said that he/she reads the boards & seasoned SA’s complaining about low fees actually created low fees. Due to lack of mentorship/secrecy/hoping to keep high fees by seasoned SA’s the SS’s knew they could throw out low fees & “mentor” the new SA’s themselves & new SA’s would jump at the offers.
He/she also stated that there are more new SA’s who want experience than seasoned SA’s who want double or triple the fee & SS’s are willing to accept errors because the new SA’s are more than willing to jump through hoops to fix mistakes so they will stay in good graces, get more help-- re: errors, learn, and get more assignments.
Owner stated that seasoned SA complaints about low fees on the boards have been a self-fulling prophecy as these actions continued & more seasoned people kept new people in the dark. Seasoned people wanted to keep the high fees, but in attempting to keep higher fees & thinking not helping new people was the way to do so–those actions created what seasoned people were trying to avoid. /end of that conversation
These are the words from the SS’s NOT mine so when/if you reply please don’t shoot the messenger.
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Interesting perspective, but I think some self-serving blindness is obvious. IF experienced SAs had been very open about fees charged, there are still regional differences involved. I remember a post from a self-described successful SA who was utterly astonished that other SAs across the nation travel 20 miles one way! She claimed to never have traveled more than 5 miles and does several a day @ $90 and is quite happy. As my ‘average’ (ain’t no such thing) trip is 24 miles one way…$90 doesn’t even scratch the surface. So any fee discussion is very subjective–and, therefore, not of much value to a newbie.
What is really sad is that SS states they can throw out anything and find someone to take it. What is sadder still, is that wannabes don’t seem to put an teaspoon of thought into what it costs to print various types of loans, gas to drive, repairs, paper, toner, yada, yada, yada into any kind of ‘what is the cost to me’ and how much profit do I require to make this a viable income = fees I must charge. I can even understand taking one at any fee ‘for the experience’. But after it’s done, THEN you have the experience required to make a plan. The biggest thing that both SS and SA must understand is simply that one size does not fit all. The variables across this great nation are just too big for that kind of thinking.
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I couldn’t agree more. Im tired of getting documents with the signing companies fee which is usually 250 or better and Im contracted for 100. It makes no sense. Its so frustrating
You are right…it’s very subjective, which is why everyone posts, “Charge what you are worth” when newbies ask questions about what to charge.
I am not saying, and I don’t think the SS person was saying, that seasoned people were not disclosing what they are getting paid because what people are getting paid is blasted everywhere like bragging. It’s that seasoned people were/are not assisting new people in finding out what to do so they could get jobs. Like my “newbie” question (above) that took weeks to get answered and I took plenty of jobs for low fees because I truly didn’t know the scope of difficulty of a job as described.
I wasn’t asking “how much” but rather “highest to lowest”. Now the answer is so obvious but it wasn’t to me when I asked if I should charge more for a HELOC than a full purchase. (…pssst…the answer is charge more for a full purchase LOL)
No one should be answering questions such as “how do I market myself” or “what now?”…silly. However, some “tricks of the trade” could be thrown out here and there.
But they are not and now will not be thrown out anywhere because people are taking jobs for $40 out of desperation so seasoned people have more reason to hide any “insider” knowledge–gotta keep the jobs you can still get for $150! Notary2Pro is the only place that “newbies” can get any sort of idea what it’s like “in the real signing world” unless they find a really nice person on Facebook who takes pity on them and their repeated questions
Besides all of that, it’s trial by fire…and complaining is not doing any of us any good.
Tricks of the trade, eh? OK.
First and foremost is Mileage & Travel Time… which is not IRS mileage fee but what it actually takes to drive YOUR car, PLUS whatever hourly rate you require for doing the driving. Note that most hiring parties want to see a ‘per county fee’…meaning you have to figure somewhere between across the street to furthest point or you’ll screw yourself. This is specific to ‘my’ area…rural/few NSAs.
Understand I’m shooting from the hip and generalizing to an extreme degree.
Some pkgs have as few as 2-3 notarizations to over 20 (Lender/TC dependent). You will not be paid by the # of notarizations…that just comes with your ‘base fee’.
“Faxbacks” required?..can vary from 1 pg. ‘Status’ to the whole freakin’ 200 pg. pkg. Whatever they tell you is deliberately misleading. And you will probably have to return home to do this time-consuming task and then go out again to drop the package. My min. is 1 pg. free/$25 (or more) over that.
Seller Packages, tho’ usually smaller than a Refi, take as much time, if not more due to B having to complete some forms, read (no RTC). Also varying state-specific requirements.
Buyer Packages, Cash = small & fairly quick. Small Refi rate. Purchase w/Loan = see Refi…except no RTC, which means B will READ. Large Refi rate.
Refis vary in size from 72 pages/1/2 hour at table to 200 pages/ 1.5 hours. Pkg. size depends on Lender AND TC…and to some degree, Borrower’s issues, which you won’t know 'til docs arrive.
VA loans/refis are always larger packages 125p/3/4hr - 200 pgs./1.5 hours
HELOCS - small pkgs, 1/2 hr.
Loan Mods - small pkgs. Can go fast or are really long as B has questions/problems/issues. Figure average of 3/4 hr. ymmv
Piggybacks (2 or more loans) = your fee X # of loans + ONE mileage/travel factor (you only make the trip once).
Any signing with other parties present is going to take longer as LO, RE Agent, Banker, Lawyer, friend-there-to-offer-moral-support are going to chit-chat and digress until you’re ready to scream.
You will rarely know about this until too late. Grin & bear it. Use phrase ‘moving right along’ frequently.
Fees,so variable I really hate to start BUT $60 is always no where near enough. I rarely walk out the door for a single doc close to home for less than $75. When they say ‘single doc’ this could be literally 1 piece of paper up to an 18 page ‘single document’. Keep that in mind as they won’t be specific. SS really doesn’t always know pkg. size…TC does, but will say they don’t.
Lowest I’ve ever accepted was $50 to record a Deed o/n to me. Most I’ve ever gotten is $400 (last Saturday). Somewhere between the two lies YOUR truth.
Used to see this everywhere and haven’t seen this tip in a long time: Flag the ‘Foremost Four’ docs and go over them FIRST in the following order: Closing Disclosure, Note, First Payment Letter, RTC (if applicable). If B has a problem, those are mostly where it’ll show up. The time to find out they have an issue with the escrow amount is NOT 20 pages from the end of a 190 pg. package. Get those out of the way first and most questions are automatically answered and the rest will go m/l quickly.
Hope this helps someone.
One more thing…I had to completely revise my whole fee schedule when I moved from rural Wisconsin to rural Arkansas and that was completely due to travel TIME. OK, one more…one size does not fit all; you WILL have to put some work into calculating what works for you in your location with your advantages/disadvantages.
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Hi, Kenmig47. Good points! However, as a real estate broker for 19 years, I can tell you that commission amounts are not set at 6% - in fact, RE brokers are prohibited by federal law from stating any such thing. One may say, “I prefer 6%” or “I usually request 6%” but one may never state a percentage or amount as a requirement to accepting the listing. If the client wants to bargain, the broker chooses how far to cut profits, or negotiates for additional expenses, etc, always keeping in mind that there are many other brokers standing in line to take over a listing, even if the client is the rudest cheapskate possible.
Excellent experience for an NSA, yes?
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Arichter - excellent points! Particularly regarding the First Four - regardless of order docs are received from lender, those should be the first presented to the client. One additional - dig out the client identification form(s) and put them on top of your doc package . You’ll know immediately a)if correct ID is available, and b)how many pieces are required.
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Thanks for all the tips. I appreciate any information I can gleam from fellow SA. Unfortunately, it’s a trial and error kind of business from the perspective of location vs fees. However, I’ve found that networking with other SA and even SS owners can be the most beneficial for avoiding pitfalls. While some people don’t want to share their tricks of the trade out of fear of competition, most SA have been willing to share some of the things they learned the hard way. I keep a notebook handy for when I think of something I can share or want to look into further, then research research research. Certainly not a “get rich quick” business, but if you want to work for yourself and shuck that Corporate America robe, it can be worth the time and effort.
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