Cash escrow signing with no loan doc - foreign buyers

Looking For Advice
21

Yes, that identification section is a life saver. thank you!

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yolicue, you mean pretty straight forward that no notarization is possible under that clause (2).? Because most passports don’t have a physical description.

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You missed the part about, in California, a foreign passport must have a physical description, and usually they don’t.

24

As usual, you loan signer guys are misreading the California Notary handbook. It’s not A and B and C. It’s A or B or C. I can’t read a Chinese passport, but I sure can read that US entry stamp. it should be noted that all passports, no matter what the language, have expiration dates.

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25

Unfortunately, it turned out to be this way. On the bright side, I have learned a lot from this. As long as I am learning, I am winning even if I am not getting paid.

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26

Looking at the CA handbook page 9 and 10, item 2 under the “Identification” section, it says “provided that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an identifying number:”

So nothing under item 2 can be used unless it has, among other things, a “description of the person”. So none of the things in item 2, including foreign passports, can be used if they lack a description of the person.

A example that would apply to me is that my Vermont radio operator ID card, issued by Vermont Public Safety, wouldn’t work with a CA notary because it’s in that same item 2, and lacks a physical description.

I agree there’s no need for a notary to be able to read the language of the country that issued a passport. There’s enough English words on the picture page to figure out the name of the person it’s issued to and the expiration date.

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So let’s play this out, Ashton. The notarization withstands the test of time until someone in the DOJ decides to investigate mortgage fraud. No matter It is stated in black-and-white on the Patriot Act form that a Chinese passport was used as identification. Not satisfied, lawyers for the DOJ subpoena the signature line in the notary’s sequential journal and verify the signature, ID number, expiration date, description of the document, the date it was signed and thumbprint. But wait, Ashton says that there’s no description of the signer on the passport. Does that now void all notarizations worldwide that used a valid passport as an ID? I think not.

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If the notary does not do exactly what the state law says while IDing the signer, and the mortgage is being paid, and no one is filing a lawsuit to quiet title and eject the present occupant of the property, probably the notarized documents would be accepted.

But what if someone complains about another notarization that’s on the same page on the notary’s journal. While investigating the complaint, a CA DOS investigator is looking at the journal, and notices the notation about the Chinese passport not having a physical description. Or maybe the investigator knows from experience that Chinese passports don’t have physical description. Would the notary be punished for violating the notary law?

What if the notary asked the title company what to do, and they told the notary to use credible witnesses for the notarization, and fill out the journal accordingly, but also add a comment to the journal about the Chinese passport, and list the Chinese passport on the Patriot Act form. Anything wrong with that?

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Make sure you can read the wording

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that’s exactly what happened. I was told by the agency who assigned me the job to accept Chinese passport. I believe she called the title company which gave her a green light to have me notarized it. The real estate sales agent also mentioned she has done it multiple times and it is OK. Another element was added to this already complicated matter, split signing, for this cash deal escrow. Again, in the CA notary handbook where specifies ID requirements, foreign passports are acceptable. To me, government of Cali is aware of the passports don’t have physical descriptions. Therefore, it is OK to use it.

31

This is a falsehood.

32

@ashton Quoting Yolicue’s message from above:

”From our California Notary Handbook (2025):

“2. a. A valid consular identification document issued by a consulate from the applicant’s country
of citizenship, or a valid passport from the applicant’s country of citizenship.”

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Quote the whole thing ( marked the important words by making the letters bold).

A. Identification Documents—The notary public can establish the identity of the signer using
identification documents as follows (Civil Code section 1185(b)(3) and (4)):

  1. There is reasonable reliance on any one of the following forms of identification, provided
    it is current or was issued within 5 years:
    a. An identification card or driver’s license issued by the California Department of Motor
    Vehicles;
    10 general information
    b. A United States passport;
    c. An inmate identification card issued by the California Department of Corrections and
    Rehabilitation, if the inmate is in custody in California state prison;
    d. Any form of inmate identification issued by a sheriff’s department, if the inmate is in
    custody in a local detention facility; or
  2. There is reasonable reliance on any one of the following forms of identification, provided
    that it also contains a photograph, description of the person, signature of the person, and an
    identifying number    :
    a. A valid consular identification document issued by a consulate from the applicant’s country
    of citizenship, or a valid passport from the applicant’s country of citizenship.
    b. A driver’s license issued by another state or by a Canadian or Mexican public agency
    authorized to issue driver’s licenses.
    c. An identification card issued by another state.
    d. A United States military identification card (caution: current military identification cards
    might not contain all the required information).
    e. An employee identification card issued by an agency or office of the State of California,
    or an agency or office of a city, county, or city and county in California.
    f. An identification card issued by a federally recognized tribal government.
    Note: The notary public must include in their journal the type of identifying document, the
    governmental agency issuing the document, the serial or identifying number of the document,
    and the date of issue or expiration of the document that was used to establish the identity of
    the signer. (Government Code section 8206(a)(2)(D))

Since the handbook says a non-US passport must have a physical description, but passports don’t have physical descriptions, non-US passports are useless for CA notaries.

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34

So why would someone choose an inexperienced notary for a very IMHO questionable real property cash transaction involving a Chinese passport? So are the unknown signer’s initials CCP?

35

Aww come on now, Joe.

36

They aren’t choosing notaries by what kind of signing it is. Maybe real live schedulers do but not the AI run services.

37

Really? how would you know that?

38

Because I have done enough re-signs to know not a lot of thought goes into some assignment

maybe it’s a guess but given what I have been sent to fix - it could be a good guess.

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