No. I didn’t miss it at all. I will “acknowledge” that the sentences that follow are awkwardly worded and may cause confusion, but they refer to an affidavit (called Jurats in California) which by their very nature require direct communication. The sentence I presented is very clear and would not have been in the Handbook at all if an Acknowllegement (as opposed to acknowledging) required all parties to speak the same language.
I agree, the only time it becomes a real issue is when the acknowledgment is submitted to a clerk at the County recorder’s office or the secretary of state for an authentication.
Thank you, I was begining to feel ganged up on.
My question is? If signers don’t speak English and you don’t speak spanish, how do you find out if they are the ones who signed the document?
I guess I should’ve read your question. You know the attorney could’ve signed those notarial certificates. But attorneys like to use a third-party notary in case the deal goes south. This is one of those gray area situations that we sometimes find ourselves in because we serve at the pleasure of the attorneys.
You find out they signed the document when they sign it in your presence.
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An Acknowledgment does not need to be signed in the presence of the Notary. Thus, they must acknowledge (verbally) to the Notary that they signed it. That crucial element is not possible if you and the signer and Notary cannot communicate.
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In this case the crucial element is that it does need to be signed in the notary’s presence.
You are exactly right. While we do not need to understand the content of the document, we MUST be able to communicate with the singer for us to come a notarial certificate.
Please read pg 23 of the California Handbook. I understand you were responding to the question as written, however, in either case (Jurat or Acknowledgement) there is a certain amount of communication that must take place. For instance, what if their is a discrepancy between the name(s) on the documents and their identification? What if there are blanks in documents? And, using a non-approved interpreter, especially a daughter who most likely is named in documents of this type, is unacceptable.
I agree. This is not the place where you make the choice to ask the question now, or forgiveness later. These are especially critical documents and could be found invalid due to notary error. And using the daughter,as the interpreter, who is most likely named in the documents, is highly problematic.
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I don’t know how to make it clearer than I already have. In California at least, the contents of the document and whether it is critical or not makes no difference if I am just verifying a signature and ID. As to all your worries about hypothecals, you can stop worrying. The CA handbook does not say I MUST notarize these documents. Please give us some credit for using judgment in our work.
The whole point of notarizing a document is that the notary sees a person who they verify as that person sign a document.
Taking someone’s word that they signed a document and then notarizing an already signed document - isn’t going to be the way I ever do things. I don’t think it’s a valid way to suggest someone can do something.
This situation is unique as their atty was also present. I see no issue in this particular case.
I would never suggest that a Notary perform any of their duties contrary to their State guidelines. In CA, however, it is permissible, pursuant to CA Civil Code 1189. We don’t simply take their word. The signer appears before the Notary, presents valid identification and acknowledges that they executed the document. To be crystal clear, I’m talking about an Acknowledgement, NOT a Jurat.
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I’ve been notarizing home loans in a major Southern California market that sits adjacent to the Mexican border since 1998. Unless you operate a “walk-in” notary business, none of these questions should ever come up.
I would like you guys to point out to me a single civil or government code in my notary handbook that mentions loan signing, yet we suddenly have a multi-million dollar industry of middlemen making notary policies and maybe illegally collecting notary fees.
Contrary to what you’ve been taught, you are actually carrying a stack of legal documents, and when you meet with a signer, your job is to properly identify, obtain signatures, initials, notarize, fingerprint if required, and leave. Anything you say in relation to what’s being signed is unlicensed practice of law. Next to actual felony fraud, that is the quickest way to lose your commission.
I lost count of how many times I had to explain the Truth in Lending document to the signer to save some sleazebag loan officer’s loan. That skill was taught to me in loan signing classes, but at least back then I was getting the full notary fee.
Just seems odd to me but you know your state better than I do.
@daren Appreciate your clarifications on this topic for CA Notaries Public/Professional Signing agents [PSAs].
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*Of course, for those who are based in other States & that aren’t as well-versed as @daren . . .
===>>> As I often express, there are multiple items someone new to this business sector would need to take into consideration . . . and actions to take for further clarification.
- Research the Notarial Handbook for your specific State to make an accurate determination (your baseline to operate from)
- Review the statutes, laws, regulations, etc. of your specific State as these vary from state-to-state.*
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