The lender’s docs will always include 3 copies so there’s no need to print additional, since you are printing two copies of the docs you’re gonna have a ton of RTC’s… did I understand you correctly, that you are making additional copies of the RTC?
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@notarybyangela16 first of all no, lender’s docs do not always include 3 copies; and even if they did - if you have 3 signed and send them all back you’re only leaving 3 unsigned with the borrower - in the case of 2 borrowers, the minimum copies to leave is 4 - they get 2 each…federal law
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Right - agreed. The doc packages I work with always have at least 2 copies. So including the ones in the borrower’s copy and the docs to sign, I’ve been lucky enough not to run into issues with no extra’s. This might depend on the lender or state? but it’s federal law so state shouldn’t matter…
To one and all.
The response to my question has been amazing, but what actually is even more amazing (so make that a double amazing) is the gamut of responses. It truly covers the proverbial from A to Z. We have;
I send all (3) copies back to the lender
By Federal Law, (!) you must leave 2 copies with the signers (Borrowers)
I give one copy to the signer (Borrower) and send two back to the lender
I follow Lenders Instructions (I never had one specify to me their wishes, but that just me)
Send ALL to the lender and Lender will send them back to Borrower (?)
And on and on …
If anyone from the NNA is following or reading this… Great topic for some updated info.
Have a good one everyone.
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Point being - if lender wants all 3 back, then it’s on the notary to make sure sufficient copies are left with the signer(s) - no matter how many signers there are.
Absent specific instructions, when I did them, if there were 3 in the package, for two signers I’d make 4 copies of the RTC to leave with them. That’s the law. And it’s the responsibility of the notary to know to do that.
You stated as such “By Federal Law, (!)…” so I’m guessing you may not believe it? Here it is
" (1) Notice of right to rescind. In a transaction subject to rescission, a creditor shall deliver two copies of the notice of the right to rescind to each consumer entitled to rescind (one copy to each if the notice is delivered in electronic form in accordance with the consumer consent and other applicable provisions of the E-Sign Act)" - Section 1026.23(b)
http://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/1026/23/#a-4
Since we are not delivering in electronic format, leaving 2 copies applies to us. Failure to do so is a Respa violation.
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You have them sign the 3 copies and leave 2 executed copies with the borrower and send 1 back to the lender.
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I have always had the borrowers sign however many copies are included and have returned all copies back to the lender. Since their copy that I leave is identical, if they signed three copies, then they have three copies. Here is what I have found on the consumerfinance.gov site (CFPB):
==================================================================
The right of rescission refers to the right of a consumer to cancel certain types of loans.
If you are refinancing a mortgage, and you want to rescind (cancel) your mortgage contract; the three-day clock does not start until all three of the following events have happened:
-
You sign the credit contract (usually known as the Promissory Note)
-
You receive a Truth in Lending disclosure (in most circumstances, this will be your Closing Disclosure form)
-
You receive two copies of a notice explaining your right to rescind
The first business day after the last of these events counts as day one. For rescission purposes, business days include Saturdays, but not Sundays or legal public holidays. For example, if the last of the above three events occurs on a Friday, and there are no legal public holidays in between, then you have until midnight on the following Tuesday to rescind.
You may use the form provided to you by the lender or write a letter. Whatever form of written notice you use, make sure it is mailed or delivered before midnight of the third business day. Keep a copy and any evidence that it was mailed or delivered on time.
If you did not receive your Truth in Lending disclosure or the notice of your right to rescind, or if they were incorrect, you may be able to rescind your loan up to three years from the date of closing. If you think this situation may apply to you, consult an attorney.
This does not mention anything regarding whether or not the borrowers copies need be signed. It even says you can send a letter so it seems the FORM itself is not that important.
How does them having a signed copy offer protection for the notary or lender? A dishonest person could just tear up the signed copy and say they never received it.
Having a signed copy returned to the lender, to me, is proof that they were informed of the RTC.
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No matter what, on every occasion, I always provide the signers with a complete set of the documents/package at the end of the signing - this always leaves them with copies of the RTC.
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I’m sure you do…but I give up here…it’s obvious my point is not getting through…and I can’t clarify this requirement any better than I already have. So rather than keep beating a dead horse…I concede…you all do you and I hope you all do it right
Good Luck
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My instructions from the loan company and signing agency have always said, sign the one as “not cancelling”, leaving the others BLANK so that they can use in the future.
Yep ! Same here. Never had, send all copies back to the TC.
the forms i see in my packages are “Right to Cancel” if these are the same ones we are talking about, there are 3 same pages… the borrower signs NOT CANCELLING, and have been left with the other two BLANK pages for when and IF they ever do want to cancel.
you don’t return anything to the loan companies/title companies EXCEPT the signed “cancel or not canceling” document. Period. You leave them with the BLANKS to use in the future if and when they might change their minds.
You’re the one who posted a bit ago that " the borrower signs NOT CANCELLING,"
That couldn’t be more wrong; they do NOT sign they are not canceling - they sign they received two copies of the NORTC.
And I’m not sure the point of your post here as I posted and quoted the federal guidelines for this. My only point is…you leave enough copies so each party in interest has 2 each…period.
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I have been closing mortgages since the late 1970s and the practice was that each signer receives two executed copies of the RTC. There is a dispute among notaries whether the two copies need be signed by the borrowers. I consider it a best practice. One which will not be disputed by either the borrowers or the lender. How many signed RTCs you send back to title is between you and the TC.
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stand corrected… there three exact copies of the “Right to Cancel” and yes, all three are signed as “acknowledge of receipt of…” and one is returned to TC, the other two are not actually blank, but are signed (either way, as the first one, of course) and are left with the borrower.
See below:
(they DON’T SIGN HERE UNLESS WANT TO CANCEL)
I WISH TO CANCEL
Borrower’s Signature Date
They sign here if not canceling and have their two copies:
ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF RECEIPT
I hereby acknowledge receipt of two completed copies of the Home Equity Conversion Mortgage Notice of Right
to Cancel and a copy of the Home Equity Conversion Mortgage Federal Truth-in-Lending Disclosure Statement.
Borrower Name (Borrower) Date
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I leave the borrow an entire copy of the loan package so they have all of the copies in their set but still have them sign all 3 in the signed set to be sent with the package.
" Federal and state consumer laws allow people to cancel certain contracts or sales of goods for any reason, such as buyer’s remorse, or for no reason at all. The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) requires sellers of goods in certain circumstances to allow consumers a “cooling off” period. Sales made by telephone, mail, or the Internet are also subject to FTC rules regarding refunds and returns. Federal law also provides a cooling off period for borrowers refinancing a mortgage or taking out a home equity loan. State laws regarding residential leases often limit the damages a landlord may claim if a tenant breaks a lease. Many states also have their own laws regarding cancellation of contracts and cooling off periods.
FTC “Cooling Off” Rule
Consumers have a three-day cooling off period to cancel certain sales for a full refund. The FTC’s Cooling Off Rule applies to “door-to-door sales,” defined as the “sale, lease, or rental of consumer goods or services” for at least $25, which takes place somewhere other than the seller’s usual place of business. This therefore includes actual door-to-door sales as well as many sales made at trade shows, conventions, and other locations.
Sellers must advise buyers of their right to cancel the sale and must provide them with a copy of the sales contract and two copies of a cancellation form. The buyer must send a completed cancellation form to the seller at the address on the form within three days to be entitled to a refund.
The federal Truth in Lending Act (TILA) requires lenders to provide borrowers with notice of a three-day cooling off period for certain mortgage loans. This rule applies to second-priority mortgages, such as refinances, home equity loans, and home improvement loans. It does not apply to first-priority, purchase-money mortgage loans."
So, I believe the true question here is what loan did she sign? You must leave the client 2 copies by law. period!
If the TC wants 3 back then you must print 5, and all 5 must be signed.
hope this helps. I’m going back in my closet now. great forum. Bye
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Isn’t that why you are supposed to print two complete packages? That way the borrower gets 2 copies for his or her file and 2 signed copies goes to the lender?
Linda,
I believe we are all on the same team here - growing and learning from each other.