In Massachusetts, witnesses are not required on loan documents. However, I do get a lot of signings for Florida properties and sometimes for South Carolina, both of which require 2 witnesses for deed signings. Sometimes, those same packages will require witnesses on other docs, like a limited POA. The majority of the time, a meager $25 is offered for the notary to provide a witness. If my wife or one of my daughters happens to be free at the proposed date/time for a given signing, I’ll take them with me since they won’t charge me and generally are happy to lend dad a helping hand. As for paying a non-relative, I don’t think I know anyone who would surrender their valuable to help me out for a mere $25. Ergo, I rarely take signings where I need to provide a witness. It’s hard enough working an industry where the margins are razor thin; I can’t afford to further erode my earnings by paying a witness more than what the SS is willing to me for their time.
That being said, I have seen an uptick in signings requiring that the notary bring a witness. Many times I have to take the L and forego those signings because my wife and daughters work full time and the schedules don’t line up. I’m not sure what is going on in other states but my guess is that a lot of folks here in MA are selling their out of state property because they need cash in this terrible economy.
I bring my mother with me. She brings a book but usually the signers don’t mind her at the table. In some instances the notary can serve as the second witness so I only need to bring my mother or another family member with me. The witness fees I’ve seen are only $25, but it isn’t always included in the fee so I ask for extra. I don’t charge for myself if I am the second witness.
Sometimes my signers have family or roommates who will witness the signing and usually I will do the witness part first and thank them for their help. Some take this as a cue to leave the table. They might still hang around in the background as the signers might have a family meal or event planned around the signing.
I enjoy the witness signings if I bring my mother. We love to go on the drive together and usually fit in a breakfast or lunch. Eating during business hours is a treat for me, I’m usually running off with only a packet of nuts, a protein bar, or a banana. I have had to find a stranger before for military personnel. If we are signing in a Starbucks or on base in the library or cafeteria, there is usually someone at hand who will oblige. I’ve had problems in nursing home with staff who are uncomfortable with being a witness. I’ve learned not to rely on hospital or nursing home staff to be a witness, plus there is the problem of compensating them. I would say if you do not have a handy family member, ask the signers if they can provide someone. If not, it’s too much stress to try to provide a witness out of thin air, I would return the assignment.
The general public! If I see a witness is needed, I ask the signer if they have one available. If not, we meet a coffee shop and we ask a stranger. The SS/TC has never had an issue with it. All adults that I know are adulting during the day.
I always have the witness document marked with a different color sticky note. We complete the entire signing minus the witness document. We then ask a stranger if they are willing to witness their signature on this (insert state) real estate document. I’ve never had anyone turn me down. We just got done with Sturgis Rally (THANK THE LORDT). I’ve had to pull a witness from other rally goers this year. Every year, really.
There is a group of retired folks that hang out at a local coffee shop every single morning. One is a retired well known financial advisor. He’s my go to guy. I walk in, grab a table and say “Hey, Barry…?” That’s our signal for witness needed shortly. If he isn’t there, his friends are willing to step in.
In New Mexico, all of the “witnessed signings” I get are for Wills or Trusts and it is always for TWO witnesses. So apparently it varies state to state. Haven’t taken one yet!
I agree with someone who said they don’t take the signings where witnesses are required. The one I took, the signing service practically begged me and my husband happened to be home and he got $50 out of it. I’m in Wa and yes I’ve seen a ton of signings requesting notary bring a witness or 2, lately. I just blocked one service on Snapdocs because that’s ALL I seen from them.
On another job where the signer was supposed to provide a witness, their neighbor ended up not being home. Me, going the extra mile asked the signing company if they would compensate a trip fee and a witness fee… I then had the signer follow me to the nearby McDonald’s and asked a random people. The First Lady declined, the 2nd didn’t. She got a quick $15 and went about her way. I feel they don’t pay the notary enough for the inconvenience (in a lot of cases) of having to find a witness.
First Class Signing Service sent me a 15 page signing for $75. I clicked on available. I saw the instructions and it stated $50 for the signing and $25 for a witness. I would say out of 10 signings posted about 3-4 need a witness. Don’t think for a second you are getting compensated for the witness. The signing fee is the same as the ones that don’t require one.
Many of the signings in NY are very last minute as in same day signing. I barely get a signing that is a minimum of 1 day in advance. I see many other states don’t have that issue.
I take the decision not to take any signings that require a witness, I have do bad experience with the new notaries, the most common is punctuality, second acknowledgment and the last biggest issue I encountered is the lack of professionalism, it’s embarrassing, also the company’s don’t pay enough to get a good people, for that reason I don’t take any signings that require bringing a witness.
There are many post on this forum going back years with notaries having varies issues with them. I have not worked for them and probably won’t. They seem to play games with fees and not being responsive in a timely manner, according to post on this forum. They sent out an offer last night around 8 or 8:30 for a refinance signing for $85. They sent it out three more times in the next 2 hours increasing the fee each time getting up to $115. Then this morning they sent the same order out again for $90. They then changed all their previous offers to reflect $90, so it looks like that is all they have ever offered for the signing.
There’s no such rule in my state, VT. But I notice the language is about notarizing the notary’s signature. If the notary’s name isn’t in the part of the notarial certificate saying who acknowledged or swore to the instrument, then the notary isn’t notarizing the notary’s own name.
I notice that in my state, VT, I could avoid the whole issue, since I’m not required to use the standard acknowledgement form. I could add a phrase indicating that I checked the signer’s ID (because I have to do that, and I’m not using the short form language in the law, so I have to spell out all the things I did.) I could then change the phrase
This record was acknowledged before me on
to
This record was subscribed and acknowledged before me on
But the people who check over the stuff our signers submit would never notice that, and are sure to complain.
What a pain! This looks like it’s going to be an ongoing issue unless the mobile notaries continue to reject for not providing the correct compensation.
Maybe I’ll just become a “professional” witness and make $25 an hour and do 6 or 7 a day. No printing, no prepping, no scanning, no hassles with signing services. Just sign my name and go.
Ahhh, who am I kidding. Besides, I’d end up critiquing the host notary’s work and probably get left behind on somebody’s doorstep.
@Bobby-CA , I use my wife as a mobile witness. If they need two, the borrower has to get one, otherwise, I will not accept the assignment. The signing company pays the witness, and my fee is at least $50 for under 10 miles, $100 if the distance is further. I think witnesses deserve to be paid for their time. No one’s complained about my fees as of yet. They’re only there for a few minutes, no need to hang around for the whole signing.
I recieved an offer this morning for a sellers package with 55-60 miles of driving, scan backs and I had to supply a witness for $60. Not only is that ridiculous, but it is insulting to our profession. The whole notary bring a witness and we will pay you $25 is ridiculous also. If you pay me $25 and I pay the witness $25 then I have sourced a witness for the signing service, which the signing service could do themselves, but I am not being compensated for finding the witness, and making sure they’re there and do what they were paid to do. Why would any of us take on work for a sigining service and not be paid for it? Would you do a signing for free for a signing service? I wouldn’t think any of us would, but every time we take $25 and find a witness and then have to pay them the $25 we have worked for free. At some point we have to stop complaining about being taken advantage of when we’re complicit in it. Even if you use a spouse or another family member it doesn’t change the fact that you should be paid for finding a witness for the signing service. It was the signing service who agreed with the Title company or the lender to have the documents signed, notarized, and to find a witness for the fee they negotiated. Why would we then take on that role without being duly compensated it for it?
Seems to me that lender/escrow/title should inform the signer(s) that THEY need to produce the witness/es. It’s their transaction, after all. It’s not easy or convenient for notaries to take this task on, essentially for free.
I’m with @Bobby-CA - let lender/escrow/title inform the signers they need to produce the witness(es). I would not put this on SS as they will be contacting another third-party (or fourth or fifth depending on length of underwriting) and signers now have ANOTHER stranger coming into their home. if Lender/Escrow/Title can’t do it and it’s pushed on the notary at least the signers can feel a bit more comfortable that the notary, who they trust, is procuring the witness.
BUT - there’s a fee for that too for the witness. No freebies.
If he isn’t there, his friends are willing to step in.