Just your opinion, again???
Well, until I’m a bit more comfortable with how things work, I probably will err on the side of “overthinking.” I’m OK with that. It keeps me safe.
That must have been before my time on this forum because I don’t ever recall hearing you say that. Nonetheless, I accept that you did.
And to you as well.
My opinion: If you don’t feel comfortable or you feel like something is fishy you’re probably RIGHT!
If you do the signing, make sure the bedridden Mother is cognitively capable of understanding the document she is signing. Also, I suggest you look into RON (remote-online notary), if you have to rely on Uber or Lyft to get you to your appointments. Become a RON specialist because you’re not going to make it relying on a riding service to get you to your appointments. That’s too much expense.
I seriously doubt I’ll be doing the signing. I think the notary that called me definitely picked someone else.It’s OK, though. I’ve learned for next time.
I’m already RON certified. I’m on two different platforms. I’m just doing what I can to build a client base for RON. Yes, Uber and Lyft are expensive but I’m minimizing costs as best I can by limiting my service area close to where I live (10-15 mile radius). I’m also absorbing a lot of those costs just to build my clientele. When I’m up to speed on that, I’ll pay more attention to the transport costs. Maybe, at that point, I’ll also look into leasing a car again. We’ll see, At present, being a Notary is not my primary source of income, but supplemental.
If you need a car for generalized travel, that’s one thing, but business is just too slow to justify such a large expense, like leasing a car, just for your mobile notary business.
Agreed that business is too slow right now to even think about it. We’re talking the leasing fee as well as the Insurance and fuel / maintenance costs. I can see that being on the order of $500-700/mo. Far greater than what I spend on Uber/Lyft. As far as generalized travel, I have very little of that left… except maybe going to my doctors or my hair stylist. Everything else I do by Home Delivery (Amazon, groceries, etc.). The only exception is a “recreational place” I used to go to on a monthly basis for which I’d have to rent a car for a day or two Can’t do it by Uber/Lyft. I haven’t done that in over a year.
But it’s funny. I’ve found that when you have wheels, discretionary travel seems to get higher in priority. Since you have 'em, you just get in the car and go places without a thought or a care. When you don’t have wheels, the discretionary travel becomes less of a priority (“Ehhhh, I don’t really need to go there”).
But to clarify your question, if I make the decision to lease/buy a car again, it will be only if both business and generalized travel go higher in demand. Furthermore, I’ll save up a bunch of cash to make a higher down payment on it and reduce the loan or leasing fee. Then it’s just a matter of the insurance and fuel/maintenance. But right now, we’re a long way from that decision.
I have been contacted by notaries several times and I opt for a professional courtesy waiving of fees (unless travel is far or I need to pay a RON fee). Personally, for GNW in general, I almost never ask to see the document before hand. On occassion, I may ask to see the signature pages, that is just for quote purposes though as sometimes I need to notarized witnesses signatures.In regards to POA’s, Wills, etc I always let the signer know that they have everything filled out prior to my arrival - roughly 50% do, however, I know approximately long a certain things take and I allow enough time, especilly when dealing with the elderly and bidirdden.
I am in a state where journals are required and I would consent to the scannng of my license for the notary act journal (I tried it, didn’t like it) but would NEVER consent to having my picture taken or giving a fingerprint since neither are required in my state.
Hi Arnold,
You said you are new to being a notary public, so perhaps you don’t know. But it is quite sufficient for her to tell you the TITLE of the document and the number and type of notarizations she required. You don’t need to have a copy of it emailed to you and of course she is well within her right to deny you a copy because it likely contained her private information. No matter what state you are in, for privacy reasons we are not entitled or permitted to keep copies of the documents we notarize.
As far as your concern whether her document contains the correct notarial language required for Florida, you could have asked her to confirm that it does. Since she indicated she is also notary public, she is likely already aware of the requirements.
Not sure what JDFR stands for in this case but I’ll read the other responses to see if it comes up.
Make sure you understand the notary rules for your state:
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0117/0117.html
Florida notary FAQ: https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/notary/FAQ.pdf
Wish you good luck!
Ah-ha! Thanks for explaining JDFR. I was thinking it was a loan term I had never heard of 
I agree that asking some qualifying questions will help you in the future. You have the right to decline a notarization for lawful reasons only. Not understanding the correct way to perform the requested notarization would be a lawful reason to decline because you have risk/liability if you were to make a mistake. SEEK NOTARY TRAINING if you do not know how to perform notarizations correctly in Florida
(See also https://www.flgov.com/wp-content/uploads/notary/FAQ.pdf
Q: Can I refuse to provide notary services?
A: Yes, a notary may refuse to perform a notarization. The situations in which a notary must
refuse are set forth in the Florida Statutes sections 117.05 and 117.107.
117.107 Prohibited acts.—
(1) A notary public may not use a name or initial in signing certificates other than that by which the notary public is commissioned.
(2) A notary public may not sign notarial certificates using a facsimile signature stamp unless the notary public has a physical disability that limits or prohibits his or her ability to make a written signature and unless the notary public has first submitted written notice to the Department of State with an exemplar of the facsimile signature stamp. This subsection does not apply to or prohibit the use of an electronic signature and seal by a notary public who is registered as an online notary public to perform an electronic or online notarization in accordance with this chapter.
(3) A notary public may not affix his or her signature to a blank form of affidavit or certificate of acknowledgment and deliver that form to another person with the intent that it be used as an affidavit or acknowledgment.
(4) A notary public may not take the acknowledgment of or administer an oath to a person whom the notary public actually knows to have been adjudicated mentally incapacitated by a court of competent jurisdiction, where the acknowledgment or oath necessitates the exercise of a right that has been removed pursuant to s. 744.3215(2) or (3), and where the person has not been restored to capacity as a matter of record.
(5) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if it appears that the person is mentally incapable of understanding the nature and effect of the document at the time of notarization.
(6) A notary public may not take the acknowledgment of a person who does not speak or understand the English language, unless the nature and effect of the instrument to be notarized is translated into a language which the person does understand.
(7) A notary public may not change anything in a written instrument after it has been signed by anyone.
(8) A notary public may not amend a notarial certificate after the notarization is complete.
(9) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the person whose signature is being notarized does not appear before the notary public either by means of physical presence or by means of audio-video communication technology as authorized under part II of this chapter at the time the signature is notarized. Any notary public who violates this subsection is guilty of a civil infraction, punishable by penalty not exceeding $5,000, and such violation constitutes malfeasance and misfeasance in the conduct of official duties. It is no defense to the civil infraction specified in this subsection that the notary public acted without intent to defraud. A notary public who violates this subsection with the intent to defraud is guilty of violating s. 117.105.
(10) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the document is incomplete or blank. However, an endorsement or assignment in blank of a negotiable or nonnegotiable note and the assignment in blank of any instrument given as security for such note is not deemed incomplete.
(11) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the person whose signature is to be notarized is the spouse, son, daughter, mother, or father of the notary public.
(12) A notary public may not notarize a signature on a document if the notary public has a financial interest in or is a party to the underlying transaction; however, a notary public who is an employee may notarize a signature for his or her employer, and this employment does not constitute a financial interest in the transaction nor make the notary a party to the transaction under this subsection as long as he or she does not receive a benefit other than his or her salary and the fee for services as a notary public authorized by law. For purposes of this subsection, a notary public who is an attorney does not have a financial interest in and is not a party to the underlying transaction evidenced by a notarized document if he or she notarizes a signature on that document for a client for whom he or she serves as an attorney of record and he or she has no interest in the document other than the fee paid to him or her for legal services and the fee authorized by law for services as a notary public.
Cheers!
All - Thank you for your advice in regards to my original question. I get it now. I have learned that most notaries give other notaries a “professional courtesy,” which I’m more than happy to do now in re: the “Stamping,” but cannot do right now in re: transport costs. I have learned that signers can exercise their right to privacy and not allow the notary to preview the docs before the appt. And, in most cases, I can learn to be OK with that, as long as I can ask those “qualification questions” in advance and make a go/no go decision. I also understand that “keeping a copy” of the notarized doc is not practiced as it falls under the signer’s right to privacy. I’ll be honest. I’m not happy with that one, because if I’m involved in a Court proceeding involving that document, I’d want to have access to that copy to know precisely what I notarized and how. What if the doc has been altered since I notarized it (not by me)? I’d have no way of proving the exhibit I’m examining in court is precisely the document I notarized.
And, furthermore, the expectation of privacy being sought here just doesn’t make sense, intuitively. If a signer wants that level of privacy, they should never use RON, for example, to get their docs notarized as all of that is recorded on video and the docs often available for download. The signer’s image is recorded, the DLs are recorded. all of that. If that level of privacy is being sought, then I’d suggest the signer bring their docs to an attorney for notarization, where “attorney/client privilege” could be enforced. I would always grant my signers “Notary/Client privilege.” I’d never make any info I learn about a signer public. Heck, I like my privacy too!. But when their exercise of privacy rights interferes with me getting the job done and safely (for me), that’s a problem. Still, it is what it is, and I have to live with it.
Going forward, I’ll be careful with these lessons I’ve learned. I will follow them. But I’ll more than likely declare more of these notary jobs JDFRs, and decline them, as a result. Perhaps, I’ll feel different and be more comfortable as I gain more experience but, for now, if it’s a JDFR,…
The document type and content is not your concern. I think you misunderstand your job as a notary. It is simply to legalize the signature. You note in your log what it is briefly and that’s it. Vetify signatures, period. I hope she found another notary.
The “document and type” becomes my concern if I can, as a result of notarizing it, be hauled into Court and put in legal jeopardy. Or if my commission is at risk as a result. Then it truly becomes my concern. No, I have not misunderstood my job. I know that all we do is certify signatures. My concern is all the legal consequences of doing that. And, without any evidence under my control that I did it right (i.e. a copy of the notarized doc), how can I defend myself in that court?
Reoquenbee is rigth, too much fuss, but thanks to you we the idle notaries have a lot of reading having my cup of coffee and dodging the lowballers…
The details of the document content are not the notary’s concern, but it is necessary to briefly scan the document to look for a few problems:
I agree about vital records, blank spaces and other certain documents. I only do a couple non loan related documents a month. Powers of attorney, quit claims, promissory notes. Sometimes wills, custody alterations, certifications for the state for brewthalizer tubes in cars etc. I always tell the signers i just verify their signature , but can’t speak to the legality of the document. For that, they may need legal advice from an attorney.
If I’m uncomfortable with the furnished ID, I will ask for additional picture ID. Only once have i refused the job. I also do my best to ascertain the mental fitness. I will not notorize for anyone who appears impaired or say, suffering from dementia.
I just took our state test to renew so i was reminded of colorado laws that i rarely encounter. If you are ever uncomfotable with the situation or the document, you can always refuse.
Vital records are not permitted to be notarized in Florida, either. Docs like birth/death certificates, etc. etc. cannot be certified by a notary. The Clerk’s/Vital records office will issue & certify copies of them.
And, yes, Florida does not permit notarization of docs with blank spaces.
As for your point 3, I have often had to cross out the Notarial Certificate(s) pre-printed on a doc where it was prepared for notarization in a different state (and which had Notarial language germane to that State), and substitute Florida Notarial Certificates with Florida Notarial language. This, for the very reason you mention.
I agree with you that one should not be concerned (in general) with the document content so long as one is satisfied via that “cursory look” that it’s not something that will get the Notary into trouble later on. I guess I’m a little apprehensive having not done as many docs as most of the people here. Once I get more experience scanning docs for pitfalls, I’ll feel a lot better.
You are concerning yourself needlessly about something that someone else “might” seek to do to you. You can do everything right under the sun, cross every T, dot every I, and add an extra period for safe measure. That does not mean you may not get “hauled into court” due to someone else’s litigious behavior. Looking at it another way – what if some of those documents you are keeping should get into the hands of another (theft, misplaced while moving, etc.) and one of your clients find out you “mishandled their personal information”, you could just as easily be “hauled into court” by one of them. The kind of assurance you are seeking is rare, if it exists at all. You will feel less anxious as time passes and you become more accustomed to the details of the job. Good luck.
I agree with the others who say you are overthinking of it. Your job is to identify the signers and notarize their signatures, not understand the contents of what they are signing. You SCAN the document for blanks before they sign to make sure there are none.
Often you will be called upon to notarize a doc in a foreign language. You don’t tell the signer that you can’t notarize their doc because it is in Norwegian and you don’t speak or read the language. Again, you identify the signer and notarize their signature. The only exception with a foreign language doc is that the certificate MUST be in English.
Being a Notary Public is being flexible. If you are too black and white, this might not be the career for you.
You don’t need to see her personal document until you notarized it.
Just make sure you’re not notarizing a blank page. The contents of it are not your business.
