I have a full time job. I’m just looking to do this part time right now.
I received an offer today for $40, and rejected it. I appreciate the nod on Notary2Pro and will check it out!
1 Like
Happy you turned it down. Now is everyone said NO to LOW, fees would rise. The opposite is also true…when people accept the loser fees, they’ll keep trying lower & lower.
2 Likes
I worked in the Autobody industry, as an estimator, and I talked to an adjuster about the low rates that insurance companies pay in the city compared to in the rural area. I thought it would be the reverse, and she told me that it’s based on what the shops accept, and there are more shops in the city than out of town. There were shops accepting low rates, so the insurance companies would lowball them until enough shops demanded higher rates.
So, I started demanding higher rates.
2 Likes
Yep! They are playing the Supply & Demand game. If we could turn it around by Demand (a higher fee) then the Supply (fee) will increase. Your key words are: companies would lowball them until enough shops demanded higher rates.
As for this ‘do it cheap to gain experience’. There’s so much wrong with this, I don’t know where to begin. When you start a new job–they pay you the same wage as the person who’s been there a bit longer and actually knows the ropes. Should be the same with us. When you’re learning something–you’re slower (meaning you’ve already taken a pay cut just because ‘getting it right’ takes you longer than someone with experience). But, you’ll get there!
Off topic, but the most important thing you can do for yourself is KNOW ALLYOUR ACTUAL EXPENSES. A spreadsheet is the best way to accomplish this. Only with that info will you realize what you are really making. I guarantee you will be very disappointed & will then start making a profit.
1 Like
@Arichter Concur 
percent. 
======
To ALL Notary Cafe Members: Looking for insights on how to calculate your actual out-of-pocket expenses & Create a List of Fees for the professional services you provide?
NOTE: Current IRS mileage rate is = 65.5 cents/mile
Here is a guide to help you along the way ===>>>
It would be in your best interest to jot down all of the expenses associated with performing the services you provide within your service region to determine a baseline operating cost. Then, at that point, you can calculate the fees that will generate a net profit to determine if you’ll have a Profit or sustain a Loss at that rate.
There are many items to consider within your Overhead calculations. Here are a few to get you started:
• telephone expenses including cell phone equipment and monthly service fees
• office equipment and furniture; i.e., work chair, work desk, reliable dual-tray printer, trustworthy scanner, etc.
• Notarial stamps for Jurats, Acknowledgements, Notarial Name, Commission Expiration, etc.
• rent and utilities
• paper
• toner
• binder clips
• pens (inexpensive for one-time use)
• stationery and supplies including stamps & envelopes
• travel costs to & from signer locations (i.e., create a generic by county list)
• travel costs to & from FedEx/UPS/USPS, etc. (i.e., choose your favorite location OR the closest that will provide you with a receipt)
• business insurance
• business-related meals and entertainment
• professional association memberships
• annual background checks
• annual certification expenses
• legal and accounting fees
• tax preparation fees
• advertising and marketing costs; i.e., Google ads, yellow pages ad, website, business cards, or brochure
• Protection equipment; i.e., COVID-19 masks, hand sanitizer, wipes, etc.
AND many more!
Your individual overhead would also include the cost of fringe benefits; i.e., medical insurance, disability insurance, retirement benefits. Also, remember to include quarterly income tax payment to federal & state (as appropriate) and self-employment taxes.
======
If calculating all this accurately seems to be a bit overwhelming, reach out to your tax advisor and ask for guidance in this regard. 
======
Also, there is an excellent specific cost breakdown by one business owner for services within her [ @anon78047977 ] region & for her overhead:
"Ok for a seasoned already in business Signing Agent (meaning no start up costs to factor in, just on going costs)
Average Refinance
- 150 pages (300 when having to print 2 copies)
- 35 miles average miles to signing/from signing/to FedEx drop
- Print cost average .15 per page (Laser printer, standard paper. Note this is also the cost at Staples, FedEx Office in the area BUT I have actually calculated my real costs by dividing the number of pages I get from a toner kit, my drum kit, cost of paper etc. but I use this average of .15 because there are Notaries around who actually use outside printing)
- IRS mileage .56 per mile [currently .655] (you can use actual costs of gas, insurance, plus maintenance costs. I will use the IRS rate because it’s a good average and I also have Tolls I have to pay which I will not add in this example. Also later I kind of use this amount as a “catch all” for other expenses. Again, I have determined my “actual” costs and the averages I use are pretty spot on.)
- 2.25 hours an average total time spent which includes, confirming appt & reviewing instructions, printing/prepping docs, travel time to/from/to FedEx, signing/notarizing docs, scan back
- Costs that people usually do not take into consideration because it’s part of their household BUT they are costs of running a business (home office expenses - internet, electric, computer, phone, supplies, etc.) Remember every business has similar expenses
So here we go…let’s look at average total for this signing:
$45 print costs
$19.60 mileage rate (So this number is based on IRS mileage rate. I use this number as a catch all to give me an estimate of my actual costs (gas, toll, %of annual maintenance, %of insurance and a % of home office costs, %of supplies, etc. Since I know my % for every business expenses, I already know this number is pretty close to my actual costs. For example my actual costs for this signing would be around $21)
It will cost me $64.60 for a 150 page refinance order. With no issues, no traffic, no reprints, no problems
If I took a $75 signing fee I would net $10.40
I would net roughly $4.62 per hour for a signing that took up 2.25 hours of my time.
$95 I would net $30.40 or $13.51 per hour
$125 I would net $60.40 or $26.84 per hour
$150 I would net $85.40 or $37.96 per hour
So when I advocate for SAs and fees I am not just coming up with number off the top of my head. I have done the math for myself personally."
SOURCE: Signing Agent Fee is Just Not a Notary Fee - #38 by anon78047977
1 Like
Yes, Mark is fantastic and so are all of his guest speakers/instructors.
2 Likes
Seems the only thing missed is ‘how to calculate expenses’. And I do disagree with one thing I’ve heard him say…paraphrasing…take any fee offered for the experience. (That’s the SS point of view talking.)
@Arichter I agree with you on that. The minute you start accepting low ball offers, you should expect to only get them moving forward.
Learn form notary training school less then $60 good program.
I registered with Signingorders yesterday and I have been scheduled for two signings. One confirmed the second is pending signers response. I haven’t had any luck with loan signing system yet but I appreciate everyone’s input. I love learning from fellow Notary’s.
As a former signing agent trainer (2006-2007) I can recognize the value and importance of proper preparation, training, and coaching. Why did I stop training notaries? Because like it’s happening right now, the bottom dropped out of the business.
The last time I refinanced my mortgage was 8/21. My signing agent was a recent “graduate” of LSS. He did an excellent job, very well trained for someone with only six months of experience.
I was able to have a candid conversation with him about being self employed. He was carrying a Mortgage, 2 cars, a stay at home spouse and 3 children under 10 years old. His agreed upon signing fee was half of the notary signing fee listed on my CD. He was yet to get direct work and was already rethinking his career.
What’s my point?
He like many people quit his job, bought into the six figures promise that powers this training course, not the excellent quality of the training he received.
So if you’re considering training to become a better more experienced notary, do it! But don’t ignore the deepening slump in our business.
2 Likes
Lot of comments already but here is my biased opinion for anyone considering LSS:
I joined LSS in March and I love it. I bought the entry-level course which is definitely under $300. I think you can spend more and try to go for the six-figure type course which seems to me to be if you want to eventually own a Signing company type goal. I wouldn’t recommend that for most people to start with. I could also see how some people find his energy to be offputting in the way that they promote their six-figure agents but I also think most people are smart enough to realize that’s probably the exception and not the norm.
I genuinely believe Mark cares about his students (and in his doing free content and mentorship for non LSS students) and he says it over and over again he gives you the tools if you don’t put in the work, you probably won’t make any money. There are plenty of people on the trainings that are too scared to take that first Signing or to call the list of companies to promote themselves. I understand it, I’ve been there. But that’s not the fault of the LSS system.
I feel like the training, and the continuing education has been helpful for me to execute Signings and market myself. The training is very comprehensive and seems to leave no stone unturned on what you may encounter through Signing and dealing with companies and marketing yourself.
I have not yet taken the step to go directly to title and escrow. I’m on that part of the course but I’m hopeful it will work. I’m also in Seattle Washington, which is a bigger city. I don’t know where everybody else is at and how slow things are.
Having said all of that about LSS, because that’s what the thread was about, I would in general probably recommend to any new signing agents to pick one course and stick with it. I know the NNA has a signing agent course for example but I chose to do LSS and still get certified by taking the NNA exam and background check.
2 Likes
Hmmm . . . in my direct experience, it’s not a great idea when creating a new business to only perform research within a single source.
Of course, the same principle holds true for training/certifications, etc.
Yes, you will have lower start-up expenses, but the breadth & depth of the knowledge you’ll gain in the process will definitively serve you well in the long run. So, if you’ve researched the potential market within your region and there’s not already a saturation of Professional Signing Agents [PSAs], then yes definitely proceed with the training programs of your choice.
======
This is what is meant when we reference that “it’s a very small world” in this business sector.
Someone new can make an inadvertent (or simple) error on their initial few signings and VOILA! There name is out for publication between & among lenders, title/escrow companies [T/ECs], etc. and are avoided for possible Signing Orders.
Another reason why we advocate for ensuring you receive some professional, reliable, & trustworthy training (not YouTube) prior to accepting your initial Signing Order. Just looking out for your successful Business Launch!
======
A few things to consider:
What is your background?
Do you have experience in Real Estate?
Do you have experience in Mortgage Lending?
Do you have experience in Banking?
Etc. ad nauseam . . . => just know that you’re launching a business and the onus is upon you to create the best foundation possible from the onset. See this thread for additional information:
Most newbies find they’re ill-prepared if they’ve only successfully completed the NNA certification as a PSA. See my notes about this topic within the following thread:
======
My personal experience:
When I initially started performing this work, I successfully completed MULTIPLE training/certification programs including Notary2Pro & NNA and many others. I have extensive experience in skill sets that require certification and recurrent evaluation tests; i.e., I’ve maintained my Project Management Professional [PMP] certification for more than 20 years. So, I understand what it usually entails and the elements that should be included within a comprehensive training program.
Regarding the NNA training specifically, it’s lacking across multiple topics & categories. Many NNA “graduates” choose to take additional training courses elsewhere, because they sense they’re insufficiently prepared. Their primer has errors throughout. Their hotline is less than reliable for accurate responses.
In my experience with undergoing the multiple training programs for certified notary signing agent [CNSA] certification, hands-down without question, Carol Ray’s Notary2Pro training programs are optimum in this industry. I’ve successfully completed ALL of the multiple training/certification programs that Carol offers through her company Notary2Pro. Her programs are thorough & detailed. These also prepare the business owner to operate a business. In addition, she offers Mentoring services. I found those to be excellent & INVALUABLE when I was initially starting out in this business sector. The prices are surprisingly reasonable. 
I’ve professionally compared the training/certification programs available at Notary2Pro with the others I’ve successfully completed. The ONLY training/certification program I recommend is Notary2Pro.
A list of companies that hire Notary2Pro graduates (with minimal or no experience) is provided to successful course graduates. => This list is pure GOLD! Study up, refresh your notes, & let Carol know when your initial few signings are scheduled. She is a wonderful mentor & can be on standby in case you encounter difficulties or have questions during your first few signings. She’s the Best! Her support will help you Build your Confidence in providing this service. 
In addition, Notary2Pro works diligently to keep this list up-to-date regarding vetting and viability. As we all know, some reliable clients can encounter financial difficulties and that, in turn, can negatively impact CNSAs directly.
Of course, your best bet would be to visit their website at https://www.notary2pro.com, research, and make the choices appropriate for your situation. The training programs by Carol Ray are comprehensive & thorough. 
P.S. I receive no compensation or remuneration of any type or kind as a result of my first-hand experiential review above.
P.P.S. Unfortunately, Carol recently passed from our earthly plane. I hope she Rests In Peace. I’m grateful to have made her acquaintance and studied under her tutelage.
.
.
.
If you want a good loan signing course go Notary training school I took it its good under $60.00.
I’m glad to see someone proudly talking about their PMP/PMI cert! Do you have links that you used to sign up? I’ve been getting some shady-sounding messages on LinkedIn and I’m guessing there’s a referral program of some sort, but would prefer to access it through someone I have some common ground with (like a fellow Notary!).
1 Like
@citrusSigningsNotary Excellent question! 
Hmmm . . . I embarked on that journey when I worked at a Fortune 100 corporation as a Project Manager and subsequently as an Executive Director (a number of years ago).
It’s optimal to begin your own journey toward PMP (or any other certification within PMI) when your career/job/role is intricately involved with multiple ongoing Projects.
Why? (you might ask)
Because achieving a certification as a PMI PMP is complex, layered, multi-dimensional effort, and the work accomplished on Projects must be delineated in detail, approved by a direct Manager & team members, and then must be submitted to & approved by the PMI Certification Board BEFORE one can even be scheduled to sit for the quite rigorous examination.
Should I recapitulate here . . . PMP is certainly not an easy task.
In addition, it requires YEARS of successfully completed work before even contemplating submitting the work to PMI.
FYI: Only approximately 5% of those who sit for the PMP examination the initial time, FAIL. Fortunately, I was one of the lucky ones who succeeded on my initial effort taking the examination.
I studied diligently & reviewed the materials forward & backward.
The examination takes about half of a day to undergo, is proctored, and no notes, pens, calculators, etc. were allowed in the examination room. Anything brought with you goes into a locker outside the examination room.
All the theorems, principles, techniques, equations, etc. must not only be memorized, but intimate knowledge, use, and implementation skills are necessary to ensure a successful conclusion to sitting for the examination.
There are various businesses that offer PMP examination preparation, but only ONE organization (PMI) that performs certification.
Here is the PMI website: pmi.org
======
This is a direct url link to a Forbes magazine article: “How To Get PMP Certification: Is PMP Certification Worth It?”
Good Luck
Could hav egot good training for less then $70 but its your money.
This topic was automatically closed 90 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.