Are we allowed to notarized a baptismal certificate?
@twrightriff You don’t mention what State in the US you’re located within . . . unable to provide a definitive reply to your query.
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As authority to notarize these types of documents can (and often do) vary by state => You’ll be BEST served by researching the Notarial Handbook/Statutes for your State to obtain the answer of how to move forward with assisting your client.
In general, most states prohibit the notarization by a notary public of official records. The original official records are solely within the purview of & are to be produced then released by those specific offices.
Here are a few examples:
- Court records
- Birth records
- Death records
- Marriage records
- Educational Transcripts
- Licensing records
- Etc.
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Baptismal records are religious in nature, private documents, between two parties. Sometimes government agencies will accept a Baptismal Record as proof of existence/Birth, as the clergy performing the ceremony has the presumption of honesty and integrity. Since a Baptismal Record is not a Government Vital Record, it should be ok to Notarize.
CAVEAT: Always check your State’s notary laws before proceeding.
Am I missing something here? Or is terminology the problem? We notarize signatures not documents, so how can you notarize a baptismal certificate? If you are certifying a copy as “true”, your state law may dictate which documents are not certifiable as vital records. Whether a baptismal certificate is a vital record may be debatable. I personally would argue that it is, otherwise for what purpose would a digital copy not be sufficient?
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I don’t agree with “we notarize signatures not documents”. In the case of certified copies, in states where that’s allowed, the document may not have a signature at all, and even if there is a signature, it probably wasn’t made in the notary’s presence, and the person who signed it was probably never in the notary’s presence.
A baptismal certificate is not a government record, so probably won’t be interpreted as a vital record. Even so, it can be used as proof of when and where a person was born if a government-issued birth certificate is not available.
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I have only been a notary in 2 states, but even allowing for differences in state laws, I feel quite sure it is the identity (signature) of the signer that we are verifying in a notarization. There are other notarial acts, such as a jurat (oath) or a certified true copy, but those are not “notarizations” by definition. We do not verify the truthfulness of the document. We can only verify the signature, or that the signer attests to the truthfulness of the document or that the the document is an exact copy of the original. I believe we are arguing terminology. A baptismal record is “proof” of baptism, and not birth. I was born in a refugee camp and was issued a combination birth/baptismal certificate a year after I was born and it was never accepted by the US Government as an “official” birth record since it was not a governmental issued document. We can agree to disagree. I personally would not “notarize” or certify a baptismal certificate anymore than I would certify a diploma, vital record or not. If your state allows no discretion whatsoever on which documents you certify, then do it. Mine allows me some discretion if I am suspicious of intent.
Every notarial act is a notarization.
You can lump everything together if you wish, but your verbiage is too vague for me. For instance, what I would tell the “signer” to bring for an acknowledgment and a certified true copy would be entirely different things. I also specify they are to bring a “driver’s license” as opposed to a contractor’s license or James Bond’s license to kill. Not everyone, and certainly not the elderly, has a valid driver’s license.
My attitude is that “notarize” and “notarization” are very vague, and I avoid them when discussing any actual occasion when I will perform some notarial act. Other vague words that are not very useful when discussing any specific situation are “official” or “government”.
The problem is if I try to use a narrow definition, but many other people use a vague definition, people won’t understand me. My attitude is the definition of a word is the most useless definition around. If I don’t like the worst definition, I have to stop using the word.
I somewhat (!) agree with you, and that’s why I don’t use the word “notarization” to cover all notarial acts. Yes, others may have their own definitions in mind, but how else do you get clarity if not by being precise?
@twrightriff - page 50 of your handbook for procedure for certified copy and page 40 for sample certificate to use. Certified copy of the baptismal certificate is probably the only choice you have unless you can get the religious person who signed off on it to appear before you and you notarize their signature
It depends on whether you are notarizing the minister’s signature on the original document or an affidavit signed in your presence by the document custodian. I’m guessing it’s going to be an affidavit if you’re in California. Some states will allow you to view the original, then you certify the copy.
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