That is not an accurate statement, example of this is on the document itself.
- THE DATE OF THE TRANSACTION
- THE DATE YOU RECEIVE YOUR TRUTH IN LENDING DISCLOSURES
- THE DATE YOU RECEIVE THIS NOTICE OF RIGHT TO CANCEL.
In some cases there are two separate forms for each borrower and sometimes there is only 1 for each.
In the case of a 2 part signing, the top date is the date the first signer signed, and the actual right to cancel is the three days from the last signer.
Sometimes, signing agents make errors on the RTC and it must be re-executed, for the original signed date due to an error.
So by being asked to use a specific date you need to know why it is being asked.
The term “Illegal” is a slippery word meaning: contrary to or forbidden by law, especially criminal law.
The RTC is governed by TIL ACT,
The TILA does not provide a formal way for consumers to exercise their right of rescission. However, the lender is obligated to give the borrower a notice advising of the right to rescind, and that notice should include the procedure used by the lender when a borrower wants to cancel a transaction. If it does not, the borrower must ensure that, in the three-day time frame, they make their intention to cancel the loan clear and do so in writing. Borrowers also have the obligation to prove that the notice was given during the right period and should, therefore, make sure that they can document the moment when the notice was sent.
I do however Jcanty, appreciate the dialog on this. Always appreciate a back and forth respectful conversation.
so thank you
Here is a scenario from the real world. Signed loan documents were submitted to the lender from escrow. The loan was to a mother & daughter. Daughter signed all the loan documents on one day included the RTC. Mother signed all the loan documents 2 days later but her copy of the RTC was dated the same day as the daughter’s (2 days BEFORE the mother signed all her loan docs). This was caught by me when reviewing the signed docs. There was no way the mother could have signed that RTC 2 days before she signed all her docs. If she were present when the daughter signed, then she would have signed on the same date. A new RTC was printed, sent back to escrow to have it signed by the mother and dated the same day she signed it. The 3 days began as of the date the mother signed the 2nd RTC. I suggest you check with your lender and get some legal advice. According to the NNA, it is never okay to backdate any loan document.
I dont want to beat this to death. I understand what your saying. The 2nd part signing agent should of had the mother change the dates at the time of signing I think we both agree with this.
Provident, and Ethos are the only lenders who would ask that the top date be dated the original date of presenting the RTC
but the RTC would be three days from the actual resigning of the RTC.
Not all lenders have this request. This is a lender by lender situation, and we follow their lead.
I dont need legal advice, and I am not a fan of the NNA since they are NOT a government agency, and most of the time they will say NO to most things asked due to liability reasons.
C2C does between 100-350 signings a day, I have seen about every error known to everone, so I know how lenders want them fixed. RTC can be at times re-executed using the original date they signed them, and some that cant be.
But its not a “legal, or non legal” issue its a lender issue.
thank you again, and I wish you only the best
I am in California. We have some stricter notarial laws here than exist elsewhere in the country. We are taught that the date on all the loan documents, whether they are notarized or not, must be date that the signer is sitting in front of the notary. We don’t do e-signings in California. In the case I mentioned, a post-closing audit would have revealed a “deficiency” due to the date discrepancy and it occurred in California. In my initial class to obtain my notary commission and all of my renewal classes every 4 years, the instructor warned the class to never backdate any document for any reason. Whether there is a law or regulation against it is not the issue, it is the fact that it is perceived as fraud. As such it does involve the notary and should be avoided. My personal view is that there is no loan that is worth me going to jail, so I never backdate anything regardless of who requests it. What you do is your business. But the experts advise to not backdate documents.
Thank you for your take and understanding. Let me be clear, it is never ok to backdate loan documents, however we are speaking about a right to cancel issue, and there are different ways and reasons to date this differently as I outlined yesterday.
California is not more strict that other states, Nevada is stricter, and Louisiana is the most strict as they base their law on French law.
I am in the mists of month end, so I will bow out of this conversation.
Happy Month end
As an auditor, not a lawyer, and a signing Agent I would never back date a document at a Signing I am performing nor would I accept the borrower backdating a document. The date on their signature line better match the day we are signing. As far as the RTC is concerned if they want a different date filled in there than the date that were signing and three days from that date and they need to have that pre-printed because I won’t do it. It’s not my job to guess when the other person is signing nobody knows something could come up and they don’t actually sign on that day and all the dates are wrong anyway I have never in 15 years done or had anyone ask me to do the dating that lisa is talking about. I have done many many years with Closings and they’ve never had us change the date that way. I have signed over 9000 loans.
I’m not interested in being dragged into court for anyone or any crooked lender.
I have been asked by “lenders” and signing Services” To backdate, but even worse to send packages back with two copies of the original Note signed. Do you know that is a securities fraud issue? I posted that one on LinkedIn and other notaries actually responded that they had sent packages in with two notes signed! Do you know what a dishonest lender does with two original notes?
Follow your gut it is your business and you are the one going to get sued or do time in jail not them. You are there to witness signatures when they ask you to do more crossing the line by changing their documents liabilities becomes gray space. I don’t blindly sign anything.
I cn usually just tell them that I eill not work for $75 and I can usually negotiate more. I have a 100% error free rating with this company so that helps.
Yes, I completed a signing for C2C. I missed a notarization. They sent me an email and told me to complete one and back-date it for the original date of signing. I was threatened to just get it done. (I have the emails as proof) I told them it was illegal to backdate a document and it was also illegal to coerce a Notary to perform an illegal act. They took me off their list of people to send work to and ever since I have made 4x the money with more jobs that either pay MUCH more and less ambiguity. Best thing that ever happened to my business. I say thank you to C2C from releasing me from working for them. I can continue to work with integrity and make MUCH MORE $$.
In this case when you do a signing on a specific date but you miss the certificate or forget to stamp you WOULD send them a replacement that would be dated the date everyone signed and you witnessed the event. You are not backdating in this case you are merely replacing what you should have done in the first place. Back dating is when you are dating on a different date then the document was actually signed before you.
State specific - here in FL if that happens we have to go back out with the document and have it re-acknowledged (and re-signed if a jurat) and do the notarization with the new date, not the previous date - here that WOULD be backdating - and I think it would be backdating in many other states too. Further, herein Florida we are not allowed to make any changes to our certificates after the fact (such as adding a stamp that was missed) - it requires a re-visit to the signers.
So would have to have the signers sign that one page over again and you re-certify that page? Would that cancel the entire original loan date especially in the case where it’s a deed of trust then in turn would it affect the entire document package including the right to cancel dating?
If an acknowledgement they don’t need to re-sign - just re-acknowledge that they did sign it - new notary cert with current date; if a jurat, then yes, signed again and new notary cert with current date; Also, never go with just a signature page - the entire original document needs to go back to them.
Should not affect rescission dates or any other documents in the package or the terms of the loan since, here in Florida, we use a mortgage and it cites the particular note that it’s securing.
P.S. This is why it is so very important for the notary to take their times, make sure all signatures are correct, and make sure their notary cert is correct…what’s that old saying? “Haste makes Waste”. This type of incident with needed corrections is on the notary’s dime…
i agree 100% Lisa Bitner is awesome and has an open door policy even with new notaries… Way to go Coast 2 Coast .
There pay has been the same since like 2010 yet they are getting paid more. The pay $75 here in southern CA and it really isn’t worth the time or effort. The only way I take their signings is if they are real close to home.
When do they pay? Once a month on the same day or how. I have 2 outstanding jobs with them and one they have not paid since July?