Hello, I’m a new RON and mobile notary from Colorado and have a basic question. If a document needs a regular witness (not credible witness), does that witness need ID? Let’s say, I’m doing a signing in person - the signer has the required ID and the document requires a witness - does that witness need ID? Also for the Colorado RONs out there: same question, does the witness need ID and does the witness also need to do KBA? I can’t find the answer in the CO Handbook and SOS is so slow in responding. Thanks in advance!
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I am pretty sure as a notary we see the ID of everyone involved in a transaction. I record it in my journal.
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My state, VT, has passed RULONA, just like CO. (But the two legislatures each made some changes, so the two states are not identical.) My state makes no mention of identifying a document witness. It is not my practice to ask a document witness for ID, but I do make a note in my journal saying the witness was present and what the name of the witness was.
This is assuming the end of the document looks something like this:
_______________ (signature line for document signer)
_______________ (witness)
State of __________
County of ______________
Signed and sworn to (or affirmed) before me on _____________ (Date)
by ___________
etc.
If there is language saying the witness is swearing to something, that’s a different story.
If you had to answer a subpoena on a signing with a witness and you never even recorded the witness, how do you suppose that would go? I mean you can notate the name, but how do you prove in court the witness was who they said they were?
It’s not my duty to verify the witness is who they say they are. I am not performing any notarial act with respect to the witness:
- I am not taking the witness’s acknowledgement.
- I am not administering an oath or affirmation to the witness.
- I am not witnessing the witness’s signature as a notary. (Sure, I saw the signature happen, but I was not asked to witness it as a notary.)
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You’re an officer of the court. The witness is involved in a legal transaction. It takes zero effort to take an ID from a witness and they are not surprised they have to provide it. If you get called into court on a transaction with a witness and you did not take ID, that’s not going to go very well. In WA state it is required. Because it is our duty to do all we can to ensure signatures stand up in court. Do the bare minimum if you think that’s enough. Or you could check the state laws. Either way, notaries have duties as officers of the court.
So I got to thinking and I looked it up. Notaries are not considered officers of the court. But in WA, witnesses are required to present ID. From lawdepot.com
What are witnesses, and what do they do?
Witnesses aren’t always necessary, but you’ll likely need one if you’re creating a document requiring a notary.
A witness is a neutral third party who watches the parties sign their legal document. They’re brought in to confirm the identities of all the signers and that no forgery occurred. After that, they sign the document too.
Your witness must be at least 18 years old and of sound mind when witnessing a document’s execution. They also can’t be in a position to benefit from the contract or be related to one of the signers. If they are, they’re creating a conflict of interest.
Even if your document doesn’t require a witness, it doesn’t hurt to include one because they can confirm the validity of the signatures if they’re ever disputed.
So witnesses attest to the validity of other people’s signatures but aren’t required to present an ID? That makes sense to you?
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Check your state laws, of course. Personally, I believe that I am responsible for identifying all signers in a transaction I witness. Accurate identification is the primary function of a Notary Public, after all. Ergo, I require valid ID for witnesses and make the appopriate notations in my journal entry.
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Being a notary does not, by itself, make me an officer of the court. Discipline of most notaries is handled by the Secretary of State’s Office of Professional Regulation (OPR), which suggest they are not officers of the court. I am a Vermont judicial officer, but that’s because I’m also an elected justice of the peace.
Judiciary related persons (Persons employed by the Judiciary, including judges, Superior Court clerks, court operations managers, Probate registers, case managers, docket clerks, assistant judges, county clerks, and after-hours relief from abuse contract employee) are exempt from Vermont’s notary law. Discipline cases for Vermont lawyers are handled by the (lawyer’s) Professional Responsibility Board rather than by the OPR. So it appears that if there were a discipline case against me it would be handled by the executive branch of government.
I don’t believe in adding requirements that are not in the law.
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Thanks everyone for the input. I think what I’ll end up doing is ask for ID from the witness but only on documents that require a witness. And for remote, I don’t think KBA will be required but I still have to confirm all of this with the CO SOS because I don’t see it in the Handbook or any of it’s addendums. I thought maybe someone here could actually cite something from Colorado’s laws but I appreciate everyone’s input. Thanks again.
As far as KBA for witnesses in RON go, it would depend not only on the law but the technical requirements of the RON platform.
@ashton The platform that I use leaves it up to the notary to know their laws so they will accommodate whatever the notary chooses. For remote, you can choose ID without KBA.
Thought this synopsis & response from my ever-improving AI assistant was worthwhile: In the State of Oregon, notaries are not required to verify the identification of witnesses to a document unless the witness is also signing a document that needs notarization. Here’s how it breaks down:
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Signer Identification: As you know, notaries must verify the identity of the principal signer(s) (the person whose signature is being notarized) through valid ID or personal knowledge, as required by Oregon notary law.
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Witnesses: If witnesses are present but their signatures are not being notarized, there is no legal requirement for the notary to verify their identity through ID. Oregon law does not obligate notaries to check witnesses’ IDs, though notaries may choose to do so as an added layer of due diligence.
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Journal Entries: In your notary journal, it’s standard to collect:
• Witnesses’ names
• Addresses
• Signatures (if they are attesting to witnessing the signing)
Since the witness signatures are not notarized, the ID verification for them is not mandatory. However, if a situation arises where witnesses’ credibility could be questioned (such as for contested POAs or wills), some notaries prefer to request ID as a best practice—though this remains optional.
If the document explicitly requires a notarized witness signature (rare in Oregon but possible for specific documents), you would then follow the standard ID verification process.
Summary
In Oregon, you are not required to verify witnesses’ IDs unless their signatures are also being notarized. Logging their name, address, and signature in your journal is sufficient for non-notarized witness roles.
If you’d like to implement additional diligence (e.g., requesting IDs for witnesses), you can do so, but it’s not a legal requirement.
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I always collect witness IDs, and identified them as such in my journal, regardless of the type of signing.
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Yes, I think I’ll ask for ID for the regular witness just to cover the bases. Thank you all.
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This has been a debate for a long time in each state In my state NY there is no requirement to check witness ID so i usually follow same practice as Ashton. Unless:
The signing company specifically asks for it (rare occurrence but has happened)
Or they offer it to me themselves but I won’t request it
For our states listed Ashton is 100% correct
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I always check ID’s but totally see your point of it not being in the handbook. Maybe ask in the Colorado Notary Society facebook group - there are some long-time notaries in there that have been wonderfully helpful to me!
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