Has anyone experienced this?

I accepted and completed a signing for this company and they stated that they would send a courier to pick up the docs from me at my location. The signing was for 11:30am and I was back at around 12:30pm. I said ok but I had another appointment at 2:30 and I needed to leave no later than 2:15pm (I told them this when I accepted this signing and also the the next day when the signing took place.). They said no problem. I kept emailing during the day because there was still no courier and it was almost time for me to leave. They said no problem and that they would be at my location by 2:00pm. They also said to just leave the docs at my door if I had to leave. I told them again 2:15 is the latest I’m leaving and no, I will not be leaving these docs at my door step. I feel like that’s a HIPPA violation and if anything did happen to the docs it would come back on me not them. I waited until 2:20, still no one so I left and took the docs with me. I’m in my signing and my phone is on vibrate but going off like crazy around 3:00. After the signing I check my phone and I have missed calls and texts with all CAPS from this company. “CALL ME ASAP. THIS IS BAD AND VERY URGENT. ESCROW IS FREAKING OUT!” Those kind of messages and I hate getting yelled at especially when I don’t believe I did anything wrong. I immediately call and this guy answers and is very angry and is pretty much saying that I knew how important this was and how dare I not leave the docs on my doorstep and this is a huge problem, blah blah blah. I told him again about how I stated twice the time I had to leave by and that I would NOT leave these sensitive docs on my doorstep. He just stayed the same and said it’s not his fault the courier was an HOUR late and I should’ve reached out to figure out another arrangement? Like really? It’s my fault THEIR courier was late any my responsibility to arrange a different way? I told him the docs were still with me and asked what needed to happen. He then asked if I could drive them into Mission Valley for them and I flat out said no. At this point they couldn’t pay me enough to do this. He said they would send the courier back to my location in 15 minutes. I said ok and race home only to get a text saying they will be here sometime before 5 but if I needed to leave for any reason to immediately inform him. I’m just so upset at this point. I don’t wanna bash this company at all but this situation was absurd. Has this kind of thing happened to anyone before? And was I wrong to not leave them at the doorstep? I’ve worked with them before and never had issues and now I’m afraid they won’t use me because of this. Should I reach out to the top department and explain this to someone there or just count it as a loss? Sorry for such a long post. Thank you for any feedback.



Absurd is an accurate description or bizarre would also fit.

Sorry you had this experience, Danielle. :disappointed_relieved:

Absolutely accurate (for a professional certified notary signing agent) for the document package to remain within your control until you perform the handoff to the shipping staff utilizing the chain-of-custody method.

If I found myself in that uniquely odd situation:
When the courier missed the initial deadline (regardless of the rationale or reason), I’d contact the hiring party and request the return label to ship the documents back to the appropriate location. This would then enable you to continue with implementation of your existing schedule. In addition, this would provide you with time to perform the handoff (and be on-time for your next scheduled appointment). Plus, you’d have proof of the handoff and the tracking would be activated when you performed the handoff to the shipping staff utilizing the chain-of-custody method. :sparkles::angel:

      • Sometimes our integral ‘learning lessons’ arise when we attempt to mold ourselves into Gumby to please our clients. :wink:

I would not have left the docs unsecured outside either - I support you there. Seems you did everything you could - you certainly couldn’t have disrupted your next signing by continuing to try to contact Mr Lateness.

One thing - if you’re going to have to fight this for any reason - like they dock your pay or whatever? You should get your full fee but please don’t claim it’s a HIPAA violation - HIPAA does not come into play in this scenario.

Good luck - I hope it works out for you. You should really name the company for your colleagues’ reference.



Thank you for all the feedback, it’s appreciated. I started to feel like maybe I did do something wrong by the way the guy was talking to me so I thought other Notaries could tell me their view of it. This signing was for The Ink and I’ve never had issues before and I definitely don’t want to bash anyone. I’m just nervous that this incident might cause them to not use me anymore which I think would be unfair. Even if it wasn’t a HIPAA thing, I just don’t feel comfortable leaving sensitive docs like these out on my door step. I don’t think signers would appreciate that either.

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No I agree - on this point your 100% correct. Kudos

Understandable. :white_check_mark:

Your concern may prove to come to fruition; however, with complete & total candor, there is truly nothing that you could do about influencing the outcome of it one way or the other . . .

Many professional certified notary signing agents [CNSAs] know this to be true. We are often blamed (identified as the scapegoat) in various scenarios wherein the signers (or signing service staff) say one thing or another (that is untrue or that is an unreasonable expectation), etc.

All you can do is conduct your appointments to the best of your ability in a professional manner. The results are in their hands & we trust the lender/escrow company will see the truth and respond appropriately, but responding appropriately may not be the outcome.

If that happens, remember to chalk it up to experience/learning lesson and know that you’ll soon find yourself working with clients that match your caliber. :angel::sparkles:

I wouldn’t have left loan documents on my porch. What is wrong with them?

This reminds me of something I heard a lot in the air force: “A lack of planning (or execution) on your part doesn’t constitute an emergency on my part.”

The title company engaged the courier, not you. They made a promise to deliver and failed, not you. Asking you to drive a zillion miles to help them out is unreasonable; I would have told them where my next signing was, and what timespan I’d be there, and that they could drive to ME if they wanted to.

Now, I’d try to be slightly diplomatic, and not lose future business, but if the other guy was already going ballistic, that business may have already been lost due to his attitude anyway.


Leave signed documents containing a borrower’s NPPI on your doorstep?

Was that instruction via email or text?

If so, forward a copy to this jer… um, individual’s supervisor immediately, so that the title/escrow company is made aware that gross violations of common sense and serious liability issues are being committed/created by their lesser staff.

That person may not thank you, but every unknowing borrower you save from gross disregard of their right to privacy deserves it.


OK this is a technicality, but if you claim this violates the signers privacy rights, it is not HIPAA. HIPAA refers to the health insurance portability act and is what you sign when you go into a doctors office. It has nothing to do with any other type of privacy. Don’t say this because it will make you seem uninformed.

Graham-Leach would be more applicable as it does apply to financial transactions and is what most of us agree to abide by when keeping signers information private.

Wow, that individual was wrong on so many counts. First, nope, never leave docs anywhere. We are responsible until they are recorded leaving our hands with a currier. Leaving them anywhere leaves you in a whole lot of area you don’t want to be. Next, we are not hourly employees. Do not hesitate to remind a company or individual that your time is not set like that. “That you will wait for us.” If they want your time they will compensate you accordingly. I would never ever take on a contract that dictates my time when no one company pays well enough to make my day. Remember you are your own business, sometimes you are going to have to hold the line at what’s acceptable or companies will be happy to cross it with you., case in point. That may be a company not worthy of working with you. Don’ feel bad, just use it as a learning lesson.

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Sad story. Couriers are always late. Why couldn’t you drive the docs to Mission Valley?

I don’t see where you did anything wrong.

BTW, HIPAA rules apply to health insurance information and records…not financial information. However, it would still be a serious violation of your agreement to protect sensitive financial information if you were to have left the docs unsecured on your porch. You just quoted the incorrect rules, IMO.

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You were absolutely right in NOT leaving the documents out in the open. NEVER go against your best judgement when it comes to your responsibilities as an NSA. I hope they were able to get over this and realized you did the right thing. If they didn’t and you don’t hear from them again, you are better off. When one door closes another opens. Good Luck and protect yourself from some of those escrow companies that try to insist you do something wrong.

I’ve never dealt with the courier situation, usually it’s just scan & ship. But why to hire a third party when they could offer you a higher pay for signing and delivering? Or the banal “scan & ship” situation.

The more people are involved the more problems occur.
I think whoever came up with the courier idea is responsible for all the delays.

:+1:t2:You did never wrong. I would never leave legal documents out for anyone to pickup signed or unsigned and I insist on a receipt. I may have driven them to wherever they wanted for a fee and if I had time I would have wanted to meet up with the person that had the nerve to yell at me. Definitely very unprofessional. And yes we get blamed for anything that goes wrong. I’ve had certified checks (one for $68,000 that was found in the trash can at the title company) lost docs lost that I knew were sent back and packages lost or said to have arrived late reason I get receipts and staple to confirmation

Wow, what a crazy experience. You were absolutely right about not leaving such documents on your porch unsecured and unattended. (We know you didn’t mean HIPAA - Health Information Portability and Accountability Act.) However, the principle is the same, exposing personal private information would have been irresponsible on your part. Perhaps for future requests like this, inform them you strive to give the next client the same on-time service you gave them. In the event their courier does not arrive on time, the package will be dropped off at a FEDEX or UPS store (their choice), and the tracking number will be forwarded to them. Make that YOUR business policy.