I Feel So Betrayed By the NNA - After 10 Years a Member - Backstabbers!

Law Related
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When I first became a notary public in 2008, the NNA was the only resource I had available. I attended their first conference in Las Vegas where I spent a lot of money as well as for all of the supplies I purchased from them. Even back then the NNA was pushing for electronic notaries and sold me one of their class packages with a electronic seal. Little did I know it wasn’t yet legal in California because the NNA didn’t let me know.

Since that time, the NNA has been pushing all kinds of money making scam ideas that never come to fruition. I recently learned about their latest attempt to support a very bad bill in California that would destroy notary businesses and allow out-of-state notaries to offer remote services in our state as well, I was absolutely astonished over the NNA’s apparent greed after learning of their being in the back pocket of Notarize.com.

The NNA had me once believing it had my best interests in mind as a notary public to protect our industry. In the case of remote notary publics, this is clearly not a good thing. In regards to the AB199 Online Notary Act of 2019 the NNA is documented on record supporting this horrible evil travesty. The SOS rejected this bill last year! This bill is clearly money grubbing, the NNA is behind the website Notarize.com.

Simply because the NNA defines itself a not-for-profit organization doesn’t mean money isn’t their primary goal. Such is why they lose all credibility attempting to present themselves here for the best interests of our industry. The term “wolves in sheep clothing” applies here. They are really really greedy! Think of all the members they have in the United States who pay them a $69 fee alone! They put on an expensive conference once a year and hire a couple attorneys to make them seem like experts. They rub elbows with politicians and legislators acting like they have all the authority and power but what it all really comes down to is money, how they make money off their cattle called notary publics.

My experience has been the NNA was involved in negotiating with title and escrow companies a standard to make sure notaries don’t get paid for each notarization they provide in mortgage document packages as Notary Signing Agents. The industry has kept the NSA’s fees low since 2008 without adjustments for inflation for the past 10 years! The abuse of notary publics for the higher ups to profit by became very apparent over the years.

The NNA is a wolf in sheep’s clothing, I was warned this a few years ago about them but this is just clear betrayal of notaries to try and push this horrible bill on California as they have and will continue to do.They lied to me when I called about renewing my membership asking about the new law I believed had already passed, AB199. They said they didn’t know anything about it. Notary (and forced to be activist) Matt Miller said they flat out told him they don’t care what people think about their supporting this bill that is entirely unnecessary since another one is already in effect that is working quite well.

Even the SOS in CA is against it!

The NNA is really a for profit entity and should not be allowed to use “organization” to hide behind as wolves searching for ways to lure and cash in on their herds of cattle in states across the nation.

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I joined the NNA and used their background check because my customers preferred them. In the ten years I have been a member, I can’t remember one time when I felt that they acted as an advocate for me. They have plenty of suggestions with regard to the profession but in very few cases have I benefited from any of their information, most of which I already knew. Remote notarization is going to reduce the need for notary signing agents in the future. I have advised those who want to get into the notary signing business to find something which has more of a future. It may take a few years to get there but a few large companies will be servicing anyone with a computer including those needing general notary services

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There are some notaries who are desperate, there are some notaries who will step up and not let nonsense affect their business or principles.Unfortunately it takes many instances to realize that NNA is bad of notaries. There is nothing in NNA that symbolized association of notaries. Its just a money grab scam organization.

I realized that after seeing their multiple mailers , offering expert opinions are basically regurgitated comments from other notaries and passing them as authority of notary law.

NNA is basically notary nonsense association. I stopped buying their annual NNA certification and have been arguing with title and closing companies against accepting alternatives.

I basically refuse to work with any company that refuse any other Alternative BG check or need annual NNA certification.
If you notaries also realize that and would stop contributing to NNA coffers,they will have less money to lobby. I refuse to work for low fees. I dont’ compromise my rates and dont panic in case other notaries likely accept lowball offers.

Anyways, nothing stops you from writing to as many of your state assembly members / senate to have this bill defeated and how this robs individuals of a notary job.

NNA exist, because there are many gutless and spineless notaries who will NOT stand up to this Nonsense.

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The NNA appears to have created a monopoly with their bedfellows in the industry in regard to the standards needed to be approved to work with the major lenders. $$$$ CSA hype, yearly background checks, and the lack of demand for fair pay for notaries. I called them on these tactics years ago as well.

It seems deceptive to not inform the borrower that the notary fee is not going entirely to the Notary Public. Let’s have some real truth about that scam. The notary fee on the loan documents is the fee we earn for taking all of the legal risks, and expenses, but I digress.

Now the NNA wants their sweaty hands on the virtual notary market…I am sure they will figure out a way to be the only providers of the software needed to notaries AND a hefty charge to run a required facial scan as another added background check every year to be a CSA as well.

I have NEVER seen the NNA help to support the thousands of notaries that are hoodwinked by signing companies that habitually rip them off by not paying the (undisputed) fees agreed upon. MortgageDocs.com and Precision Notary Services come to mind as two companies that just slammed shut their doors and owe me money. These companies open and close and open shop again like a jack in the box, but you never hear a peep from the NNA trying to warn or protect their members. It is on sites like this that we have to self educate.

I would love to see the NNA lobby to pass legislation to make it a federal or even state level crime to refuse to pay a commissioned state officer (Notary Public) on a signing that the notary successfully closed. More directly for non-payment for any notarial act related to real property.

Or lobby for an extensive background check (including past professional enterprises) is run yearly on signing companies Agents of Service and CEOs. I found one company that has a CEO attached to years of suspended business dealings in CA.

How about the signing companies being required to open an escrow account that holds at least 10% of their yearly gross sales, so we can get paid? Sorry, I have never been burned before now for payment so I am appalled at the lack of legal recourse.

When notaries are subjected to membership fee’s and more $$$ in order to be accredited by one group, and one group only- meaning that group actively collaborates and sets the standards to approve our right to work with the lenders. I think that makes it feel more like notaries are paying union due’s and not a membership to a not-for-profit association that cares about the collective as a whole. I do not think publicly commissioned officers should be subjected to what can feel like a pay for play landscape.

Humm, the NNA…They appear very thirsty when it comes to making that dollar off our backs.

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Personally, I’m pretty tired of your attacks on people you do not know. “Gutless and spineless…” is simply one of the latest. However, occasionally between the tiresome rhetoric you say something of note. Writing to state representatives regarding the monopoly NNA has built around notarial services is an excellent idea.

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@Judikidd: Its not a personal attack, so what are you taking it personal?
Its a general affront to the attitude prevailing among unnamed professional notaries and the malaise that continues. Why are choice of words construed as attack ? I am tired of this policing and compulsion to be always use nice / kind / sugar coated words. Practice what you preach. Write to your state rep about NNA and encourage use here by your activism.
Please !! spare me your lecture. I for one, call spade a spade.

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Hi. I have only been with the NNA for the past year for the background check. I like to research information set with facts and as you may have a valid point, I didn’t see you cite any documentation. Can you please provide that information for the rest of us to read?

Please don’t take this as an attack - I don’t intend for it to be one. I do however like to read the facts when someone is citing them from the original or official source.

Thanks.

Can you please share the official links for your research such as:

• Where would I find that the NNA is linked with Notarize.com “is behind the website Notarize.com”

• The documents that show they support a bill in California - and the official name of the bill.

• What additional Bills do they support that are bad for notary’s - You gave the impression they supported more than one.

• How do you know the NNA was involved in price setting with title and escrow companies? What is the documentation to show this?

Thanks again for the supporting documents.

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Hand in glove w/Notarize.com–who is a workshop presenter at the 2019 NNA Conference: http://www.nationalnotary.org/nna2019/online-notarization-skills

As to price setting: this was simply stated in (I believe/think) their monthly bulletin long, long ago and quickly withdrawn due to ‘price-fixing’. I remember the incident, just can’t provide the proof you want. They are also the organization behind the SPW–which sets ‘the rules’ for NSAs and was manned by a self-selected group of Title Co. who produced this Code of Conduct–and has m/l fallen by the wayside: http://www.nationalnotary.org/knowledge-center/signing-agent-resources

Also, FWIW, NNA is actually two entities. One is a non-profit; the other is most definitely for profit. Again, looked this up long, long ago and no longer have the linked proof, but Google is your friend.

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To answer this - and to back up ARichter - used to be they had a list of “suggested” fees posted on their website - obviously we can’t produce that now since it’s been removed and the site revamped. However, I will tell you that many of us, including myself, received a call from the Department of Justice about it - they were investigating this practice as it was considered price fixing and a violation - it was some time after this phone call that the “suggested fee schedule” was removed.

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To further answer your other questions - the bill in CA is AB 199 - if you google it make sure to put in “2019” or you’ll come up with some off the wall bill unrelated to notaries. Since the NNA is based in CA it would not surprise me that they were behind this bill - they were, after all, supportive of the Virginia legislation enacting remote notarizations - I watched the streaming video of the hearings as they were happening and the NNA was there to support the passage of the bill - NOT to defend the position of notaries across the country who strongly opposed the legislation.

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Thank you, Linda! Us ‘oldies’ have long memories and really do know the history of this organization. And know that the ‘profit for them’ narrative continues…every which way they can think up. If this doesn’t make you think …
“NNA was there to support the passage of the bill - NOT to defend the position of notaries across the country who strongly opposed the legislation”… then just keep drinking the KoolAid.

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Sounds like it might be an opportunity for a few of the “oldies” with connections. Time to start a new Notary association where the members have a say and membership buys you a vote in changes to business practices.

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Just for the heck of it… Google the online notarization co and other organizations involved in this; check out their linked in profiles for their experience…and follow the money trail implications yourself. Way over a ‘couple of notary oldies’ heads and empty pockets.

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@CherylM :white_check_mark: Agreed :white_check_mark: Easy to track across the myriad threads & posts on the Notary Cafe forums about this . . . :angry::collision:

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:swan:

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Wow, I had no idea this was happening. As a notary since 2000 following my military service, I initially saw Remote Online Notarization (RON) as a fantastic advancement—especially if properly regulated by the states. It seemed like a service that could truly benefit those we aim to support.

However, we live in a capitalistic system that often prioritizes profit over principle. As notaries, it feels like we’re expected to fall in line, regardless of whether the direction serves our best interests. Thankfully, we still have the freedom to choose. I’ve decided that this organization no longer aligns with my professional needs, and I’ve simply outgrown it.

That said, it’s clear the NNA will protect its interests however it sees fit.

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@peoplessigningservices :sparkles: :blush: :sparkles:

:swan:

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I don’t see even one benefit from paying to be a member of NNA. I use it to buy my background checks, E&O and so forth, but you don’t need to be a member to do that.

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They can be helpful at times for commission renewals but the NNA is much about money. They are the ones who brought down profits for us in the real estate industry collapse in 2008. That was the year I started being told eventually could make $400 a day!

The NNA makes money on the agencies now while making sure we must pay $179 a year of a test and background check to qualify to be promoted on their website. Most NNA agencies that work with the NNA are looking for cheap notaries so they keep the money for higher profits. I never accept their offers.

It was a great industry prior to 2008 but it’s never really recovered in my opinion. Nor do the agencies care about inflation being so high along with material costs.

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@jnewberry :white_check_mark: Concur :white_check_mark:

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@jnewberry :white_check_mark: Concur :white_check_mark:

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@jnewberry :white_check_mark: Concur :100: percent! :white_check_mark:

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@jnewberry :white_check_mark: Concur with your prognostication. :white_check_mark: The transference of these services has been increasing exponentially over the past few years. :persevering_face:

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:swan:

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I’ve read through the comments here, and I think it’s important to separate frustration with the industry from blaming one organization for everything that’s gone wrong since 2008.

First, yes, the NNA makes money — but that revenue funds services notaries actually use. For new notaries especially, the hotline is invaluable. I don’t know of another number you can call where a specialist will walk you through a notarial issue and potentially save you from making a mistake on an important document. That alone can be worth the membership. For more experienced notaries, the value is in the state specific resources, training and ongoing legal updates that keep us compliant as laws change. I believe the reason so many hiring parties insist on NNA certification is because it provides a consistent baseline. That consistency helps us prove credibility fast and keeps the industry from being all over the place. The Loan Signing System – which I think is also an excellent training – runs you between $300 and $900.

Second, on RON: I’m not a fan of it myself but whether we support it or not, RON is moving forward because lenders, the real estate industry and consumers are pushing for it. It’s not something the NNA invented or can stop. My current state of Virginia started it, and Tech companies pushed it hard. What the NNA can do — and is doing — is provide training, set standards, and give notaries a voice in the process. I’d rather have them involved shaping how the laws look than have us completely shut out of the discussion. Also, the only affiliation between notarize.com and the NNA that I am aware of is that they are a paying vendor at the annual NNA conference like many others.

Third, on the fee issue. It’s true the NNA once published a “suggested fee” schedule, which DOJ reviewed. That was over a decade ago, and the practice was dropped. Since then, the real driver of fees has been supply and demand. Too many notaries are willing to accept rock-bottom offers. In most cases, those are notaries who haven’t invested in training, don’t understand their costs, and end up taking full loan signings for $60 just to get work. The reality is those folks rarely last in this business, but there’s an endless flow of new notaries being recruited by social media ads. The pitch is usually “make six figures with a $10 stamp, minimal training, and total flexibility.” That kind of messaging attracts people who think they can wing it, which only adds to the race to the bottom. But let’s also be honest — the hiring parties do the industry (and their own customers) a disservice by chasing the cheapest option. When they hire inexperienced notaries purely to increase their profit margin, it lowers quality, increases errors, and ultimately hurts everyone involved in the process. Meanwhile, the NNA has tried to counter this by offering training and publishing articles encouraging notaries to know their worth and refuse lowball offers. Due to above mentioned legal restrictions, that’s as far as they can go.

My personal take:
As someone that is doing this full time, I’ve always found the NNA to be here for us and being well worth it for a little over $9 a month. In most states you can charge more than that for a single notarization — without even factoring in additional fees. When I was new, I used the hotline a lot, and it probably saved me from serious mistakes since state training (some states don’t even have one at all) alone doesn’t prepare you for real-life situations. The hotline can also be useful when a client insists on something you know is unlawful — having a third party expert to back up your position can make it much easier for the client to understand, accept and go on a different route.

Nowadays for those $9 I get my Bond, E&O, annual training, law updates, and hotline access if needed. On top of that, I save money through NNA perks like discounted UPS shipping and legal services.

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