@brucem1213Yes, interesting indeed. I’ve encountered this as well in my direct experience.
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Also interesting . . . this morning received a call from a Signing Service [SS] with the voice of one of the ‘regular’ Schedulers who previously called, but her voice this time wasn’t warm & friendly like normal - it was quite ‘mechanical’ in its nature.
A few seconds into the call, mentally confirmed it was an Artificial Intelligence [AI] Scheduler . . . I’m certain you can imagine the difficulties encountered when endeavoring to ‘negotiate’ a fee with AI . . .
Has anyone else encountered this scheduling ‘technique’ yet?
Agreed, the 2000s was the best time to be a LSA. A solution could be for LSAs to form a union the same way pro athletes have a union to negotiate their compensation with the pro leagues.
If someone asked for a flat fee of $25 I would suggest they send the documents to the signers directly and have them hire their own notary. They obviously don’t value expertise in the signing of their documents.
Yes, but only for now while I build up my bookkeeping and tax prep practice. The LSA work is interesting and I get to meet lots of interesting people, but the pay is sub-par compared to the miles driven and the printing costs.
As I had mentioned in my reply to a survey question in this thread, I am doing almost exclusively LSA work right now as I build up my bookkeeping and tax prep practice. I like doing the LSA work and if it paid better, I would likely have kept it as my main source of income. Unfortunately, fees are too low and the work is not consistent enough to rely on volume to offset the low rates.
I was tempted to place blame on signing services at first, believing that they were low-balling fees too often, but a look at the settlement statements on many of my recent loan signings has shown that in many cases the SS is getting low balled and they’re merely splitting the low fees down the middle with the LSA. I know that some SS’s do low ball their fees, but I stay away from those.
What I am noticing is that the value of our work is getting lost somewhere between buyers/sellers trying to save a buck and Title Companies/Lenders/Attorneys forgetting how crucial a role we play in the process. I’m not ready to go on strike here, but I am definitely shifting my focus to building up my other service offerings as those are much more lucrative, with lower overhead and higher fees for the work involved.
As I often express within the Notary Cafe threads, it’s currently a very difficult ‘row to hoe.’
Plus, when coupled with the advent of the forces exerted on moving forward with Remote Online Notarizations [RONs] & “centralizing” the Signing Orders [SOs] into warehoused organizations - there’s a further decrease in signing opportunities.
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Certainly not being a ‘negative Nellie’ - simply categorically identifying the milestones witnessed via direct experience over the most recent decade.
Performing a Search via the TREASURE TROVE (Notary Cafe database) also reveals the vast number of those new to this business sector attesting to the lack of available SOs.
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You’re wise to clearly recognize the proverbial writing on the wall . . .
No, not my primary source of income, but much needed. I do not take sub-par fees, and have been able to manage, but it is getting harder to negotiate an acceptable fee, and even those are lower than they were when I started. Shameful.
Yes, this is my primary source of income. I know it’s going to slow down after October (for here), so I am looking to either expand my services to include some sort of profitable niche, or some sort of full time remote job and/or another type of freelance work.
Say what?!?! The only reason for low fees is because notaries accept them?? Wake up and smell your notary stamp, friend. There are a whole bunch of reasons for low fees being offered by the signing services. My friends on this site will give you plenty if they have the time. I’ll start it off by suggesting that the signing services want to maximize their margins so they diddle around with fees offerings to their advantage. I’d do the same if I ran a signing service - who wouldn’t? It’s not unfair or illegal or immoral or cut-throat or anything else. It’s BUSINESS. You can take it or leave it or negotiate.
What I’ll say is this: like many of the regular cast of characters that opine on this forum, I/we work very hard with the SS to build a rep that can be relied upon. The good ones know us and I’m quite certain they give us the nod on the deals being offered when they know they can depend on us. Fees become fairer and get paid faster, in my experience. The SS that offer low fees know they’re getting newbies and weaker/desperate notaries and the notaries who accept low fees will soon learn they’re not making a profit. Only the strong survive.
So who doesn’t want to maximize their margin? What kind of margin do you get from zero reponses to a low ball offer? Zero. I have noticed lately that many, if not most, of the ridiculously low offers tend to get “rescheduled”. These are inevitably from schedulers who up the ante $5 at a time, up to the last minute, in hopes of reeling in a sucker desperate enough to sit by the phone all day to get closer to break even at $5 a bid. Yes, only the ones who are strong enough to say “no” will survive, and that includes the signing services. When they figure out mutual respect equals mutual benefit we will both survive.
Agreed. But, keep in mind, the lowball offers that you and i would never accept always get taken (if after a few $5 increases). Somebody takes 'em. Somebody always will and that what lowball SS depend on. There’s always someone new who comes along and does those jobs. It’ll never change. Never has.
The one thing for sure is that they won’t give you better fees unless you ask for them. A signing service sends out a blast order with their standard base fee to everyone. They don’t pick and choose notaries for higher amounts. If you want a higher fee you have to counteroffer. Maybe they’ll accept it and maybe they won’t. The only time you have a real negotiating advantage is when they call you on the phone to offer you a signing. In that case, you’re not competing with anyone. You give them your fee…they accept it or they don’t or you negotiate.
Yes, my only source of income (not counting my SS) everyone is correct, when I first started 6 years ago hence covid, I was making decent income and I was getting paid very well, now it’s a struggle. The cost of living has increased and groceries cost more, gas has not decreased much at all and supplies cost more. If you turn down an assignment someone that has just started as an SA grabs it. They will soon learn it is not worth taking those low ball assignments.
I’ve encountered this as well in my direct experience.
- it was quite ‘mechanical’ in its nature. 
. . . I’m certain you can imagine the difficulties encountered when endeavoring to ‘negotiate’ a fee with AI . . . 
Excellent Plan!