Introduction and a Texas legal question

Law Related
1

Hi, I just signed up today. I am not a Notary Public or Signing Agent, but my wife is, also on here but shy. I have been reading this site for about two months now. The Notary Cafe, meaning all of you in one form or another, was and is instrumental in helping me set up the business end for her while she concentrated in learning the Notary and LSA commission and training. For the info I have read I thank you all very much. I’m considering joining you as well, but this would be down the road for me.

For the question, which is in the State of Texas, is this: Is it true that a customer (signer) is required to have the signed and executed loan documents provided to them? For clarity, I do not mean a copy of the documents given to them when the Notary - LSA does the sit down. Those won’t have the signatures.

My question is based on what I have read based on this law:
§153.22. Copies of Documents: Section 50(a)(6)(Q)(v)
“At closing, the lender must provide the owner with a copy of the final loan application and all executed documents that are signed by the owner at closing in connection with the equity loan.”
https://texreg.sos.state.tx.us/public/readtac$ext.TacPage?sl=R&app=9&p_dir=&p_rloc=&p_tloc=&p_ploc=&pg=1&p_tac=&ti=7&pt=8&ch=153&rl=22

This is what is prompting my question. I did an equity refi last December. I did get a copy of the loan documents at the sit down, but I did not get the signed and executed package of documents. I have purchased 2 homes in the past and did one other refi, and I have all those documents in full. They are signed and executed.

We went to the mortgage company and requested the loan documents, and they sent them on March 1. They sent them REGULAR MAIL, all my PI data included, are now unaccounted for in the mail system. I cannot believe that a reputable mortgage company would EVER THINK of sending PI through normal mail with no ability to track.

My questions are, to the best of your knowledge,

  1. how do you Notary/LSA’s handle the equity refi regarding the signed and executed documents (or do you at all?)
  2. In your experience with mortgage companies, are they supposed to automatically send out the documents to the customer once they receive them?
  3. When is the “actual closing”? Is it during the sit down you have with the customer or is it when the mortgage company gets the documents and records them?
  4. Am I wrong in my assertion of sending a full executed loan package through US Mail normal delivery?

Thank you all for reading this long question but I wanted to put some context around it so you know why I’m asking.

2

First the caveat.

I’m not an attorney licensed in Texas, permitted to offer legal advice, or accept fees for legal advice. What I’m offering is general information ONLY, and not intended as legal advice. You should reach out to your attorney for advice. You need to learn Texas Notary Laws.

What I’m about to say may sound harsh. It’s not meant to be, it’s meant to let you and your wife understand this is a profession that can have significant legal and financial issues for her if not done correctly.

If you haven’t already you need to have a conversation with the appropriate professional(s) setting up a business and obtaining E&O insurance. If you don’t and you get sued it’s all on you.

If your wife is too shy to discuss her concerns on a forum like this, she may want to reconsider being a NSA. Sitting down across the table with folks she’s never met before is nerve racking in its own. That first signing is the most nerve testing. NO, you can’t join her at the signing table. She has to do this one on one out of privacy concerns.

Many of your questions can be answered in her NSA training. I went through Notary 2 Pro for mine. Loan Signing Systems is another good choice.

The copies requirement in Section 153 apply to cash out Homestead loans. Please read through the entirety of sec 153 for context. Texas Constitution, Article 16, Section 50 states that equity loans need to be closed in the offices of a Law Firm, Title Company, or the Lender. To do otherwise may invalidate the loan and put the liability on your wife’s shoulders. Again, seek the advice of an attorney. Get Trained.

“This is what is prompting my question. I did an equity refi last December. I did get a copy of the loan documents at the sit down, but I did not get the signed and executed package of documents. I have purchased 2 homes in the past and did one other refi, and I have all those documents in full. They are signed and executed.”

You will not get an executed signer’s copy. The signer needs to request them. If you request them you maybe acting as Attorney in Fact. If you’re not an attorney, your may be practicing law without a license. Texas Penal Code Section 87.

If an equity loan is closed outside of a Law Firm, Title Company, or the Lender, the closing may not have met legal sufficiency, potentially rendered the closing invalid, make your wife financially liable for the loan, legal expenses, and ancillary damages. Seek the advice of an attorney for clarification.

“1. They sent them REGULAR MAIL, all my PI data included, are now unaccounted for in the mail system. I cannot believe that a reputable mortgage company would EVER THINK of sending PI through normal mail with no ability to track.”

Only the signer can request the executed documents. If you made the request you may have been practicing law without a license. Seek the advice of an attorney.

“1. how do you Notary/LSA’s handle the equity refi regarding the signed and executed documents (or do you at all?)”

Do not close a Texas Refi outside the offices of a law firm, title company, or lender. They will have a copier for you to use. Get NSA certified and seek the advice of an attorney.

  1. In your experience with mortgage companies, are they supposed to automatically send out the documents to the customer once they receive them?

This is one of the questions you’ll get answered when you get trained. Yes, I’m pushing training as it will help do the job right. The signer only gets the CD prior to closing. Any other documents are icing on the cake and often have errors.

  1. When is the “actual closing”? Is it during the sit down you have with the customer or is it when the mortgage company gets the documents and records them?

The closing ceremony is when you sit down with the signer(s) to collect signatures. There is a post closing process that the Lender, Legal, Title, and Escrow handle. Many of these closings have a 3 day rescission. The loan won’t “close” until after 3 days post signing. Again, these details are found in the NSA training courses.

  1. Am I wrong in my assertion of sending a full executed loan package through US Mail normal delivery?

You should return the signed package according to the Title Co.s preferred method. How the executed package is delivered to the signer(s) is at the Lender’s/Title’s discretion.

Please have your wife get trained, bonded, and insured for both Notary activities and Loan Signings. Trying to do this Ad Hoc increases your liability significantly.

Good Luck.

3

exeternotary, thank you for your response. I can tell you took time to write this out.
I want to be crystal clear to you and everyone else that read this:

I, and my wife, is the customer. We were the signers. My wife did not act as a Mobile Notary or Loan Signing Agent for this transaction. It must have been my writing style that led you to think that she did the closing. In fact, she was NOT a Notary Public (yet) when this closing took place.

My wife, now as a Notary and LSA, specifically DID NOT want to write this out. I was being kind to her when I said shy. She is completely trained (both NNA and Loan Signing Systems), bonded, and insured. She’ll post here when and if she wants to.

Knowing this, if you don’t mind, would you look through my questions again? Again, we are asking on the context of being the signer/client, not the notary, because we were the client.

4

decook,

Since this is a forum for Notaries and it appeared that the questions you posed were from that of a notary, I answered accordingly. My apologies for the misunderstanding.

Many of my answers to your questions are found in the NSA training materials, such as when does the loan close, and how to handle the equity loan document requirements in Sec 153.

Generally it’s up to each lender and title co. to decide if they’re going to send you the executed documents. If they do is may take months due to high demand at the property office, title processing, or escrow.

Sending a document package through the mail is a more risky proposition than having it sent to a local title company for pick up or having it emailed. Sending it Fedex or UPS is a better option than USPS 1st class, since the common carriers can require a signature upon delivery. A signature will help track a missing package.

This is a tough and competitive business. There are new NSAs constantly on the in flow. Many of us are willing to mentor newbie to a point. That point is not a lack of patience but on how much I’m comfortable disclosing to a competitor.

Here’s are free word of advice don’t accept low ball assignments with the idea these are good choices to learn from. A newbie will learn as much taking on higher fee assignments as they will low ball offers. Accepting low ball offers drives the price down for all of us, and will eventually put your wife out of business. Carefully calculate your cost of doing business, including her time, when accepting an offer or making a counter offer. Some of my signing were paying $200 for a mobile closing that involved a 200 mile round trip. Today they’re offering $90 flat fee for any signing. I no longer take these assignments. It also appears my colleagues are also refusing them as well.

5

In the state of Texas, signers should always receive a copy of documents at the signing. If your at a Title or Attorney office for a cash-out you can make a copy of the signed and notarized documents to give to signers. If not they need a unsigned copy of doc’s.

6

Update on my lost documents, after two months, I have received my loan documents and my PI data is not lost.