please advise here , I have re-fi signing after 2 days and received message from the signer that his wife is out of country and he has POA to sign , as I am new LSA from CA and as per my understanding I have to take original POA from the signer and send it back with signed docs and signer will need to sign at wife signature place and add POA verbiage. Anything else should I take care or any other inputs ? will appreciate. TIA
So this is the trick I taught myself. Think of it as this they are SIGNING OR ACTING for someone else. So, you always always put the original signer FIRST. THEN you put by WHOEVER is signing then AS ATTORNEY IN FACT. EXAMPLE: Mr. Away person BY Mrs Standing in person AS attorney in fact.
Initials: MAP by MSIP as AIF
YOU GOT THIS!!!
My .$.02 FWIW…check with hiring party on how they want docs signed…every lender is different.
Remember, you in CA cannot put capacity in your certs…you will only use the name of the signer that is present with you.
In the loan package instructions from your hiring company should be some instructions regarding signing with POA/Trustee verbiage. For example:
POWER OF ATTORNEY AND/OR TRUST CLOSINGS:
- POA: If this closing requires a Power of Attorney, please follow the State requirements for signature:
- Documents are signed with “attorney in fact”. Example: “John Smith by Jane Smith as Attorney in Fact.”
- In PA only: Documents are signed “as agent”. Example: “Jane Smith as agent for John Smith”:
- Please return the original Power of Attorney with all other signed documents.
- TRUST: If the transaction is in a Trust, all members must sign the Note with their name only (no additional verbiage).
Now as far as TAKING the original POA from the signer to send back with the executed loan documents… if it was me, I would want that clear instruction in writing from my hiring company. Typically the borrower faxes a copy to their lender ahead of the signing.
But this is another instance where it is perfectly acceptable to contact your hiring company for guidance. Ask what exactly they require and what specific verbiage they want the signer to use, if they have not made it clear. Mind you, all parties to the transaction would much rather the notary signing agent call to ask/clarify understanding rather than guess or assume and make a mistake.
Whether it is the first one or the 1000th signing. Never be afraid to pick of the phone or to email to get the clarification you need. If it happens to you while you are at the table with the signers, no shame whatsoever in calling your hiring company for guidance. There are no dumb questions.
How I might pose it to my hiring company: “Hello this is Carmen Lane, notary signing agent for the SMITHS order number blah-blah-blah. We have a question regarding the Power of Attorney verbiage on page(s) XX. How do you want the signers to sign their name? What specific verbiage do you want them to use? (write it down verbatim!) AND do you require the original Power of Attorney document to be sent back with the executed loan documents, or do you just need a photocopy of it? And does that photocopy need to be notarized photocopy of the original? (Then note the hiring company’s instruction in your journal).”
Agreed, much better to call than guess. Sometimes you cannot reach the people who have the answers so you refer again to the signing instructions. Some lenders require full Trust verbiage (it can look like a paragraph, and some only want the word “Trustee” after the signature. In California starting 2021, most Escrow companies said not to sign Trustee, Settlor or any other capacity after the signature as it is already in the signature line. I have been having the signers print their capacity under a signature line for a Trust Certificate (not a Certificate of Trust) because that information is called for under the signature line. The certificate is filled out with only the individual’s name, and not capacity.
Out of state Escrow may have different requests. If you read the instructions regarding POA or AIF or Trustee and nothing is mentioned, you can’t be held responsible for a wrongly signed document, but it does no one a favor to have a redraw if you just don’t bother to make sure.
I would check out the Coast2Coast Youtube channel I believe they may have something on this topic that will help you… training that is free. They are a California-based company and I would contact the NNA if you are a member for help on this. If you are not an NNA member as a new signing agent you may want to consider… (not being paid for this endorsement). They have been extremely helpful in guiding me through the first 4 signings will questions that I had. It comes at a cost… but totally worth it in my opinion.
This adage fits for this scenario (excepting any type of illegal request): “He who holds the Gold, makes the Rules.”
The guideline I utilize: I request explicit instructions in writing from the hiring entity for any Power of Attorney [POA], Attorney-in-Fact [AIF], or Trust documents.
This is the most trustworthy method for ensuring the work you execute satisfies the requirements of the client.
Yes, and you need their instructions " in writing"
Not sure why you would ask here as your hireing party is the one to ask. You received a message from the signer, but that does not mean that the lender approved it. Ask the hiring pary, as the signer can not make a change like that. Just on the side here, You can’t fill out a Jurat for the POA as someone can not take an oath for someone else… Ask the hiring party to OK an acknowlagement instead.