I’m renewing my commission and stumbled across info. regarding not using the title of Notary Public on Patriot Act. The NNA states that LSA or Signing Agent should be used instead, since this is not actually being notarized with notary language or a stamp. Incidentally, It would have behooved me to have learned this in the LSA training. I’ve been doing it wrong by putting title as Notary Public on this form for nearly 4 years now. Anyone have feedback on this, will Signing Service call it an error? Happy New Year! 
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Nah. Did have 1 co. want NP (incorrect, as you stated), so am gratified that the NNA did something right for us.
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Correct, I’ve always put Signing Agent for the title part on the Patriot Act or customer ID form.
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Me too…if it wasn’t notarized, my title is “Signing Agent” … Hat #2 worn at signings… 
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Youtube video on filling out Patriot Act and identity forms https://youtu.be/Y5_iCkm5hzo?feature=shared
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You won’t get in trouble but you ONLY use Notary Public on documents you notarize. That training doesn’t really prepare you as a loan signing agent. They teach you marketing but I see basic errors like this all the time from people who took that training when I do split signings. Notary2Pro really covers everything about loan signings. You will be well prepared if you take that training.
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@katherine_burton You’re 
percent correct in your statements (excerpt above). 
My personal experience:
When I initially started performing this work, I successfully completed MULTIPLE training/certification programs including Notary2Pro & NNA and many others. I have extensive experience in skill sets that require certification and recurrent evaluation tests; i.e., I’ve maintained my Project Management Professional [PMP] certification for more than 20 years. So, I understand what it usually entails and the elements that should be included within a comprehensive training program.
Regarding the NNA training specifically, it’s lacking across multiple topics & categories. Many NNA “graduates” choose to take additional training courses elsewhere, because they sense they’re insufficiently prepared. Their primer has errors throughout. Their hotline is less than reliable for accurate responses.
In my experience with undergoing the multiple training programs for professional signing agent [PSA] certification, hands-down without question, Carol Ray’s Notary2Pro training programs are optimum in this industry. I’ve successfully completed ALL of the multiple training/certification programs that Carol offers through her company Notary2Pro. Her programs are thorough & detailed. These also prepare the business owner to operate a business. In addition, she offers Mentoring services. I found those to be excellent & INVALUABLE when I was initially starting out in this business sector. The prices are surprisingly reasonable. 
I’ve professionally compared the training/certification programs available at Notary2Pro with the others I’ve successfully completed. The ONLY training/certification program I recommend is Notary2Pro.
A list of companies that hire Notary2Pro graduates (with minimal or no experience) is provided to successful course graduates. => This list is pure GOLD! Study up, refresh your notes, & let Carol know when your initial few signings are scheduled. She is a wonderful mentor & can be on standby in case you encounter difficulties or have questions during your first few signings. She’s the Best! Her support will help you Build your Confidence in providing this service. 
In addition, Notary2Pro works diligently to keep this list up-to-date regarding vetting and viability. As we all know, some reliable clients can encounter financial difficulties and that, in turn, can negatively impact PSAs directly.
Of course, your best bet would be to visit their website at https://www.notary2pro.com/ , research, and make the choices appropriate for your situation. The training programs by Carol Ray are comprehensive & thorough. 
Plus, there is a List of reputable hiring entities that you’ll have access to within the Notary2Pro Elite Training Course (see screen shot below).
Check it out at their website: notary2pro .com
NOTE: Their curriculum recently underwent a comprehensive updating & revision of the material.
See more about that here:
Notary2Pro – 9 Jul 24
Notary2Pro Unveils the All-New Elite Loan Signing Agent Course: Continuing a…
“Notary2Pro, the leader in notary loan signing agent education, proudly announces the launch of its all-new Elite Loan Signing Agent Course.”
P.S. I receive no compensation or remuneration of any type or kind as a result of my first-hand experiential review above.
P.P.S. Unfortunately, Carol passed (February, 2022) from our earthly plane. I hope she Rests In Peace. I’m grateful to have made her acquaintance and studied under her tutelage.
======
ADDITIONAL NOTE: Here are 2 separate threads (see direct url links below) that will serve you well. Read them carefully & take notes. There is pure gold within these words . . .
Notary Public. There’s no such thing as an LSA or a signing agent when it comes to official titles. Why does everyone think a fancy title will change anything. We are notary publics. Your license doesn’t read Loan Signing Agent. Or Mobile Notary or anything else. Why risk it being called an error. Happy New Year. Just my opinion.
We are notaries public when we are performing a notarial act allowed in the law of our individual state. Maybe we could stretch that to include communicating about notarial acts we have performed, or might perform in the future. Maybe, when I submitted my application for my new notary commission, I was acting as a notary. Maybe, when I talked on the phone to title about why I considered a piece of ID acceptable, I was acting as a notary.
If I complete a Patriot Act form that does not contain a notarial act, I’m not acting as a notary public. I’m something else. I’ve always put “signing agent” in the blank for those forms.
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You’re a notary public. It’s not a bad thing.
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You’re a notary public, yes. But that portion of the package (collecting the forms required by the Patriot Act Form) is not a notarial function - so if you’re not a signing agent, what do you call yourself aside from the forms notarized? In your public profiles, you describe yourself as a mobile signing agent,so, there is no such thing?
my $.02, FWIW
You show up to handle a loan signing as a notary public. Mobile Signing Agent is a marketing term. Pure and simple. When asked what I do I say I am a mobile notary. That’s all. But marketing is why we say Loan Signing Agent and Mobile Signing Agent. It’s marketing to increase perceived value so we pay ridiculous amounts of money to take a test given by someone exactly like us to say we’re better than everyone else in the game because we’re CERTIFIED.
It’s marketing. It’s the six figure guy telling you every assignment should pay minimum 200-250 dollars blah blah blah. Sorry to get blunt about it but I spent 40 years in sales and marketing. Loan Signing Agent - that was good marketing. It has everyone thinking they’re a big shot.
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Yes, mobile signing agent, loan signing agent, signing agent, and mobile notary are all marketing terms. First and foremost, notaries using those terms are letting potential clients know they are willing to travel to the signer, and most of them are willing to do real estate packages.
Second, certain for-profit training organizations offer private certification using one of these titles. A private certification is only necessary if the client requires it, although now, almost everybody in the game does require it for real estate documents.
When I fill in a “title” line in a non-notarized document, even though it says “title” I think of it as “role”. It’s just a plain-English description of why I’m the one signing the document.
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I’ve been a loa signing agent for almost a year now and I have never once put LSA as my title on the Patriot Act form. Out of 145 signings to date, I have never had one rejected because of putting down Notary Pubic as my title. I agree with you that there is no need to put down any fancy titles on that form. If others want to do it, I take no issue with it, but as for me, I will keep putting down Notary Public, unless title requests otherwise.
Title doesn’t tell you how to obey your state law. Your secretary of state or similar state agency does. This forum and other notary forums have many instances of title or signing companies asking notaries to do things that are not lawful in a particular state.
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For California notaries:
An excerpt for the California Notary Handbook, Government Code 8207: “A notary public shall not use the official notarial seal except for the purpose of carrying out the duties and responsibilities as set forth in this chapter. A notary public shall not use the title “notary public” except for the purpose of rendering notarial service.”
I’ve been a notary public/signing agent since January 2006 and because of the above quote, I’ve always entered “Signing Agent” on the U. S. Patriot Act form. Never a problem.
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This is correct. There was a Q&A done with CA secretary of state’s office and they did clarify you should not be using the notary title on this form. I would definitely check your own state laws.
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@darla The same happened to me a while back. I just write out Notary Signing Agent and move on to the next document. Sorry it happened to you too.
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Never had notary public rejected. Have been told the sheets labeled closing instructions on a certain lenders documents that have a space for “signing agent” is for the title closing agent NOT the notary. Also, if you see “closing agent stacking order required” - that’s not us either. But now I get instructions that say “don’t return out of order” so someone thinks differently, I guess.
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Hello Darla,
I am in the same boat. I only discovered I was filling in the incorrect title last Fall. In my experience, signing services do not count this as an error, but it reinforces the importance of taking additional training outside the NNA.
All the best to you, colleague!
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