Hmmm, that is very specific and I thank you for your response. I will tell the friend who asked me about it. How pre dating the signature where there is no notarization involved?
If you mean "how about pre dating the signatureā¦ "
If the signature line for signers also requires a date, I let the signers date that line. I donāt date for them - and Iāve heard of instances where notaries did do that and the company called them out on it and called for a re-sign.
JME
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Yes how about. Thanks Linda
Itās illegal here in CA and I would imagine that it is illegal in every state. Think of it this way, you havenāt identified them, seen them sign and they have not even appeared before you yet. What I do though is, I complete everything but my signature and stamp ahead of time. This is perfectly legal because our handbook says āmust be COMPLETED at the time of the notarizationā. I also complete my journal, except for the ID information, before I get there. It definitely saves time while staying legal.
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I am in FLā¦you can fill in the certificate but CAN NOT sign and stamp until you have seen them sign the document and put them under oath (if needed). Signing and stamping must be done in front of the client and after you have witnessed them signing.
Terri
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Iām in Texas and title companies email docs if the signing ends up being a no sign we shred documents. In 5 years I havenāt had anyone wanting my printed copies sent back but maybe my area is different. What I do to cut down time is use fill and sign on adobe and make sure my state and county is typed in and my name is typed in all spots and dates typed in just how title has it on most documents. Then I get to signing and only have to stamp and sign. Looks very nice and neat and less I have to write. I get amazing feed
back on that from title. Journals I just do it when I get there.
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I have always personally picked up documents from title company/ EO, because I did not have a dual printer. So I would personally return docs back to EO. If there were docs that needed to be discarded because of errors, unsigned docs, etc, according to the notary course I took, all documents should be returned and never discard any documents. I would always put a sticky note informing them why docs were not signed, example, client may have refused to sign. I have never printed emailed documents because I didnāt have a dual printer. Now that I have a dual printer, I guess I get to experience what others are experiencing with emailed docs soon.
I fill in the venue information, signer(s) name, and date the day of the signing I do not notarize until I am at the signing table. The docs I receive are Edocs, so if the signing is halted, I donāt have to return anything.
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What I do to save time is to prefill the notarial certificates, but not stamp them until Iām in front of the signer during the signing and entering into the journal.
The Parts of a Notarization
The Notaryās screening of the signer for identity, volition and awareness is the first part of a notarization.
The second part is entering key details of the notarization in the Notaryās ājournal of notarial acts.ā Keeping such a chronological journal is a widely endorsed best practice, if not a requirement of law. Some states even require document signers to leave a signature and a thumbprint in the Notaryās journal.
The third part is completing a ānotarial certificateā that states exactly what facts are being certified by the Notary in the notarization. Affixation of the Notaryās signature and seal of office on the certificate climaxes the notarization. The seal is the universally recognized symbol of the Notary office. Its presence gives a notarized document considerable weight in legal matters and renders it genuine on its face (i.e., prima facie evidence) in a court of law.
Thatās what I do also. Iām commissioned in OR, and from what Iāve read, that is legal to do. What is NOT legal is to sign and/or stamp the document with your seal before you are in front of the client.
Iām a CA notary and in over 3000 signings I have never been requested to send unsigned documents back. I have to shred both the Lender copy and the Borrower copy. I never prefill the documents because sometimes there are errors on the documents like the name of a person or property address. If the mistake is on the Escrow docs you can usually line through the mistake and have the signer fill in the proper spelling/address and initial. On the Lender docs, it is rare that such corrections are acceptable and you must call in and ask permission. One of my borrowers had sent away an earlier notary because she was offended that that notary had pre-filled in the dates and information. She said it was cheeky of her to assume that she would sign the packet! She wanted them filled out as we went through the signing. What I do in order to save time and after I have verified the identity of the signers, is put the date and time, signing address and ID information on the first line which I reserve for the DOT entry, then the other entries for the other documents I put the personās first name in each block and on the last entry, put the date and time again to bookend the entries. My signer signs the ledger and thumbprints each entry and later I fill in the missing information. You must record on the DOT line, time, date, type of ack, venue, name (address is optional in CA) ID info, signature and thumbprint for all real estate specific notarizations. If you are working for a Lender, Title or a scheduling company, in the Fee field you put zero or N/A or none as we are paid by the job, not the notarization. If it is permitted and the signers donāt object, taking a picture of the IDs cuts down on mistakes as you can magnify the image. You have to be diligent about deleting the images after the journal entries are complete. If you have an image of the IDs, you donāt need to fill that in at the signing table which saves a lot of time. My pet peeve is the Statement of ID or some such which is a full page of confidential information. Some signers have already submitted a copy of this document. I ask them to print it out and resign. Otherwise I save that page until the end and they fill it out while I am reviewing the pages for missed signatures, dates, etc. You will cry if you hand that page over when it pops up in the package. Your signer will be distracted and some of them will not move forward with the rest of the signing until it is complete.
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When was the last time anyone saw a title agent notarize docs in front of the clients? I donāt think I have ever seen them do this. They usually take it to their office and finish the signing and stamping at their desk.
Iāve never got that opportunity to see a title agent do a signing. So I donāt know what they do.
As a R.E. Broker and random house-flipper, I have closed more deals at a Title Co. or Bank than I care to count. In the thousands, at least. Have NEVER, not once, had them notarize anything in front of me. Not only that, but most of the time the person who āwatched us signā is not the person who completed the notarization. It is what it is.
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Now that IS ILLEGAL. With Covid when all the crazies were telling us to ādrop off docsā for borrowers to sign and we sit out in our car and wait ect., I said Hell NO that is Illegal and later down the line if their is a legal battle WE the Notaries who allowed this - We Are Responsible for what we notarize, will be dragged in court and could be held liable. The title agent who witnessed you and or customers sign should be the ONLY one who signs and notarizes then or later. That notary at the title office should have lost his or her license.
I fill in as much as I can, then sign and stamp when I am with the clients. If you donāt do this ahead of time your clients will become tired of the process in a hurry.
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The only thing I do to save time during the signing is pre write the state and county, my name and title, name of signers, then I watch them sign the docs, I then sign and stamp after. I pre record in my journal the type of docs and property address. That is after I confirm the appointment. I do those because if I have to do all the logging, it could really take a lot of time and at one time I have to notarize 13 signatures. I only write the driverās license one time, then just copy and finish the journal when I get home.
Article regarding Predating Documents. Lots of good discussions but would be helpful if people included state for each discussion. Person that stated we must adhere to state laws is correct. I had a title company call me from NE and wanted me to predate a document 1 month prior to notarization. Of course, the answer is no. More than ever we need universal notary laws. Voting requirements for 2020 also opened my eyes to how many states require witnesses for signature and that some ballots must be notarized. States need to come to an agreement for universal ballot process. All of this can be done if states would work together as a team.
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In Las Vegas/Nevada that is illegal.