I understand that a signer should always sign their name as written, but I have a couple of questions I was curious how others handle:
I did a signing the other day and gave those instructions and the signer just scribbled an unreadable signature that was clearly not the whole name. But when looking against the ID, that really is how they sign their name. I told them to write the name as spelled, and they said that is how they do it. There were no issues after the fact, but I don’t want to find myself in a situation where I have to resign. Thoughts?
When we do a signer that has a title of some kind (for example a trust, it’s their name, Trustee). Is the “, Trustee” part required to be written by them? I try to remember to always ask for that, but on occasion I have missed some. I haven’t had an issue yet, but having to re-sign can be a real pain.
First part of your question - if they state to you that that is how they sign their name, and like you said it matched their DL - it’s not up to you to make them change their signature. I believe that wording is aimed to get them to sign as they took title - i.e., took title under name “Robert” - don’t sign “Bob” or “Bobby” - sign Robert.
As to the second part - that is up to Lender and/or Title. I have had some have to sign their name, “Trustee” or TR"…and if they’ve individually guaranteed the loan they will have to sign twice - once as Trustee and once as the individual. Yes a pain, but follow title’s instructions.
I simply put on an orders notes signature is true and accurate representation when it’s a scribbled mess. My favorite so far is the man who used a symbol like a cattle brand for his signature.
Title companies say different things. About using “member” or “trustee”. Just ask.
If they are a scribbler, you are usually good to go. I have signers sign my journal first so I can compare to their ID.
If they are a legible signature-I explain the expectation they sign as written, if they push back I simply explain their docs can be rejected by the lender-I have had that happen 1 time by flagstar bank-total resign, even though the SS instructions said have them sign their normal signature.
You can’t really tell them to forge their own signature, but most SS if they have explicit instructions expect you will notify them from the table.
I did a signing a few weeks ago for a seller who was originally from Nigeria. In His country their signature is a hybrid of all there names into one name. How he signed the papers weren’t legible to me, and certainly didn’t look anything like the printed name. His signature on his identification, however, looked exactly like how he signed the docs.
I think of the signature on the ID as only one factor in checking the identity of the signer. Other factors are photo, height, weight, eye and hair color. If the signer signs with an illegible scrawl when signing “John Smith”, and that’s what’s on the driver license, but signs with beautiful cursive when signing “John Fillmore Smith”, the cursive version is fine with me if everything else is OK.
If you can read the signature then they should sign the name as is. But if it’s a scribble, you can’t really ask them to change their signature and it’s good to go. I did see one title company say no scribbles however and the borrower obliged.
Some lenders say just sign the name and not title while others want the whole thing written out. Sometime I draw a second line for them to add title…
It just has to match the ID signature is all. You’re not supposed to override the way they sign on their valid ID. If the printed name below the sig line has an initial or full middle name they can add them in the signature for Deeds. The title companies want the name to match the printed name below but you can only notarize it if they’re shown printed on the ID.
Asking them to sign a clearly written name not on the ID is nonsense. It’s their signature you have no right to reject to your liking. As you know, many sign with artistic signatures and that’s fine if it’s that way on the ID.
If they struggle to sign due to impairment then you need to use the X mark method as another procedure.
Sometimes title companies ask for things that are unlawful and that’s why we need not to be conned by these kind of lame requests.
Many states have passed the Revised Uniform Law on Notarial Acts. The organization that published it, the National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws, included commentary to help understand it. The law has been passed in my state, Vermont, so I pay attention to it.
The comment about variations between how a name is written in a document and how it’s written on an ID credential, is on page 19 and states
Identification of an individual based on an identification credential requires some flexibility. For example, it is not uncommon that an individual’s name as used in a record may be a full name, including a full middle name; however, the name of the individual as provided on the identification credential may only use a middle initial or none at all. The inconsistency may be vice versa instead. The notarial officer should recognize these common inconsistencies when performing the identification of an individual. However, if a notarial officer is ultimately uncertain about the identity of the individual, the notarial officer should refuse to perform the notarial act (see Section 8.)
This comment, given by a group of lawyers interested in notarial law, directly contradicts your claims.
I give the instructions of what the lender/title wants and if they follow the instructions then they do - if they don’t then it’s on them. I can’t make them sign the way I instruct. I’ve also had people “sign” their full names - printed because they say they don’t how to sign their full name in a signature. Like if they had first middle last - that’s not their signature so they just print it on the line instead of “sign”. I put notes when is end the docs back that way they know it wasn’t because I wasn’t being diligent.
Quick story somewhat related to @miyakmeek’s "they say they don’t how to sign their full name in a signature. " - conducting a refinance, gave instruction on how to sign (and thought I’d watched him pretty closely) - well, guess not. Halfway through the package I notice he’s not signing a middle initial -so we go back, he inserts middle initial then we continue rest of package with proper name - but HE never uses his middle initial, and it was awkward for him.
Got it all signed, sealed and shipped - get a call about a week later from title - they don’t believe he signed the second half of the package because the signature was so different! Finally convinced them he did and never heard another word.
Same signing where wife was not on mortgage and title tells me “just write her name in”. smh
I agree with what miyakmeek did but I’d word it differently. I know lots of people who can’t write in cursive, either because they don’t teach it in school, or because they didn’t teach it in the country where the signer grew up. In my mind, a signature is a signature, no matter whether it’s written in cursive, block letters, Chinese characters, Arabic characters, or is an illegible scrawl. If the recipient wants it signed a certain way, it’s up to them to make it clear what they want, and it’s up to the signer to go along with the request or defy it.
I usually tell them that title wants them to sign exactly like they have it (just in case they reject it) but that I cannot ask them to change their signature. Most people don’t have a problem adding their middle initial if need be. But this does need to be better regulated and taught. The most important act a notary is required to do is verify their signature.
It’s impossible to regulate how signers sign their signatures. People have been signing their signatures for hundreds of years with more or less the modern meaning, and thousands of years before that. There are no general-purpose laws commanding people to sign their names in a certain way, although there might be some narrow-purpose regulations. An example of a narrow-purpose regulation would be the rules in some states telling notaries how the notaries have to sign their own signatures on notarial certificates.
Since there are no general purpose regulations, and there are hundreds of countries, and around 100 or so states, territories, and Native American tribes, I think it’s far too late to establish a general-purpose law about how to sign a signature.
It’s not ever going to be regulated by any level of government in a general purpose way. If I were attending continuing education to renew my notary commission and the instructor said “now I’m going to teach you the detailed laws about how the signer has to sign their name” I’d be thinking, “good luck with that”.
If an instructor is teaching a class for loan signing agents, and is discussing the requirements that most of the title companies have put in place, that’s a different story. But that’s not law, that’s an arrangement among some private parties negotiating contracts. No different that UPS telling me that if I want my package, I have to sign on the electronic pad, not a piece of paper.
