AZ is starting RON closings. Under AZ R2-12-1308 a notary is required to store and maintain the audio/video file and Electronic Journal for 5 years protected using encryption and/or password protected.
Does anyone know the size (gegabyte, megabyte, and/or terabyte size) of a RON closing?
I am looking to purchase an external hard drive to download the files, and am unsure as to what size to purchase.
Not a clue…nor do I understand RON much, if at all, but, I thought that the ‘storage’ had to be accessible by anyone who has the digital key/code/password/whatever for future verification purposes. Which, I believe, is why these RON notarizations must be stored in the cloud so they can be accessed 24/7/365, if needed. (Which is also why it’s an expensive way to go). If you are storing this on an external hard drive…how is 24/7/365 access available to those who need it?
RON is “Remote Online Notarization” where you use a digital certificate to notarize. However, in answer to 24/7/365 - your Journal and recording is not of public record and can only be accessed by a subpoena and must be kept confidential and protected from access just as your Notary Journal. So the only one who should have access to this information is the Notary Public. AZ requires that the Notary download the Electronic Journal entry and recording session and store for up to five years under encrypted access or protected (passcode) - which means you have to store it until you subpoenaed to produce such evidence of that particular closing. Further, upon death of the Notary the storage of the electronic closing must be provided to the AZ Sec of State for safe keeping until the information expires (five years).
Appreciate the education on this. So much to learn about the process.
FYI for other notaries seeking same information. I talked with Nexsys Support and after reviewing other RON files - he recommended a 1 terabyte external drive which he believes will hold about 4K video/audio files.
Thanks. I’ve become RON certified in AZ so this helps.
I use a 128G memory card. Each closing is different. A one hour signing uses about 300M stored on MP4 video.
What platform are you on? Is it working out for you?
What platform are you on? How is it working for you?
Your information is very helpful. I am wondering though which RON platform seems to be the most user friendly & cost effective for both loan signings and general notary in AZ? I am currently trying to decide which RON platform to use so that I can submit my application to be a RON. Any suggestions? Please specify what your pros and cons are for the RON Platform you are currently using. Thank you
Good question! It depends on what you want to do… I do strictly Real Estate Closings, and the two platforms I use are Nexsys and Pavaso. I am not signed up with Docusign because of the monthly fees and document upload. I am not in the business of doing my own uploads and documents, as in AZ you have to be licensed in the state for document preparation. I do not want to pay a monthly fee to the different platforms - so, my suggestion if you just want to do signings for title companies - that you get an invitation from them to do its loan closings and be under its umbrella where you do not have to pay a fee. It all depends on the direction you want to take your Notary business. I do not find paying a monthly fee of $20-$40 a month worth it for the type of notarization I do. Most title companies use specific platforms.
Thank you very much DH Smith!! I am a bit overwhelmed with trying to figure out which platform would be the best fit for me. I would like to perform both loan signings and general notary work since loan closings seem to have slowed down significantly. Other than super low offers from one company and difficulty receiving payment from another (who’s fees are fairly low as well), I have not been receiving notifications. So, my thoughts are that maybe being a RON would increase the amount of work I receive. May I ask, are the fees that we are paid for loan signings lower as a RON since there is no printing or driving? Also, are we paid sooner or is it the same timeframe?
Join the club - there are so many platforms - and new ones are coming out all the time. Docusign is the most popular and been around for years. I have found talking with borrowers - this is the most popular because it has been the most used by companies in the past. Since RON has started - new platform business have popped up to get a piece of the pie - just like notaries who got into the signing business which has lowered the fees. If you do not work for a title company, your fees will be low. Signing companies retain at least (if not more) 45% of the fee that a title company pays, As to a RON fee, yes, the fee is much lower - it can be from $35.00 - $65 dollars per signing - no travel, no printed documents, you do it right from home. Talking with Title Companies about RON closings - you will find they are doing most themselves, as their closing team are notaries and all ready set up in the system. Also, talking with Title Companies - new purchase loans are done by its closing team - and not farmed out. Real Estate Broker for contract sales that require notary are set up through Docusign or Notarize. (Notarize - you are paid $20.00 per signing - but it is not set up in Arizona yet and paid at the time of signing - it is used by such companies as Zillow). Even though RON is great, you have to determine if it is cost effective to do with the fees involved. In AZ the max fee you can charge per signed signature is $10 per signature. Then you have provider upload fee, storage fee, setup fee, a monthly fee - is it worth it? Yes, loan closings are on the down hill swing - and will be getting worse with inflation. Real Estate is a roller coaster ride - and we as signing agents ride the wave. So, in answer to your questions, just keep researching. I do - and contacting title companies. It is a real competitive market out there. I have been doing this since 2003 and have rode many a wave.
Thank you for confirming my thoughts. Correct me if I am wrong. In contrast to doing in person, we as Notaries are “only” paid by each Notary signature/ stamp, nothing else? So basically, other than having multiple documents to Notarize in one RON, we are paid the same as general Notary work? Is that correct?
Depends on the Notary - as we are “independent contractors”. Personally, my fees are according to type of notarization package - I have a fee for Reverse Mortgages, Reverse Mortgage Applications, Piggy Back Mtgs (First with a a Second Mtg at the same time), Purchase Mtgs, Commercial Mtg - which fees include any and all documents; I charge extra to supply a copy to borrower; charge extra for fax backs/scan backs. So, it is up to the Notary to determine what fees to charge. Signing agencies have their own set fees - which do not include the extra work or preparation. In my personal opinion - if they are reputable signing agency they will provide compensation for such fees. Just be sure to ask ahead of time what its requirements for the job is (what type package), does it require scan/faxbacks; and, do you need to supply a copy to the borrower. I have noted on many jobs sent by email and/or SMS - the companies do not disclose what the complete assignment requirements are - they just give you a fee for the job. Once you accept, it will then disclose you have to provide a copy to borrower, fax/scan back documents and await for approval before shipping.
I must have not clarified my question, I apologize.I was referencing the fees we are paid through RON platforms. I am very aware from experience how the loan signing work in person. Signing Services *definitely * Take a huge chunk of the fees, and you are so correct about them not taking into consideration all the time and effort into the preparation and such, not to mention the liability we take on. What I cannot understand is the greediness of these Signing Services, especially considering that many, if not most, of these Signing Services are or have been Notaries themselves. It is very sad. The other difficulty, is trying to get title companies to give you the opportunity outside of SS. Anyhow, back to my original question about real estate packages through RON platforms, My current understanding is that if you are an Independant RON, you can pass on the platform fees that we as Notaries incur, to the customer, correct? Another question I have, as an Independant RON, the clients/customers they are referring to are title companies and lenders that the Notary already work with directly, Is that correct? RON Platforms are not referring to Signing Services and/ or SS Platforms as being clients, is that correct?
I apologize for all my questions. Thank you for your patience and input, I sincerely appreciate any and all the help and advice I can get!
As far as RON Platform storage goes, from my research and understanding, there are some RON platforms that provide the storage for the amount of time that each state requires as part of their services.
I hope this question is permissible. How many AZ Notaries on this forum are currently RONs? Do any of the AZ RONs on this forum mind sharing which RON Platform they use, the pros and cons of the platforms they are using, and why they chose those platforms? Again, I am just trying to figure out which platform I would like to start with. I appreciate any and all participation! Have a wonderful day everyone!
Valarie - your question is very valid. However, I must warn you that this is something to discuss with the AZ Secretary of State as the laws of have changed. The handbook states, “Charging more than the fees authorized by statute. A notary public who charges fees higher than
allowed by rule (see the rules in the back of this manual) is liable to the party aggrieved in an
amount four times the fee unlawfully demanded and received [excessive fees A.R.S. §§ 38-413
and 41-316(C)]. In doing so the notary public is also guilty of a class 5 felony.”
Since, COVID the online workshops have been filled before I was able to register. Under the new AZ requirements a Notary is required to take the yearly Workshop. However, I have noted that in the past 8 months none have been scheduled due to COVID.
For the past 8 years (up to COVID) I attended the yearly shops. When I asked the question regarding a Notary fee - (as I was an independent Notary Public working with Title Companies - the answer was that administrative fees and Notary Fee is different… Since, I was being paid through a Title Company/SS company, I was being paid for services that included a Notary Fee and “was NOT collecting directly” from the individual of whom I was notarized.
Now, if you are asking me, can you collect from an individual for the Statute amount of the fee - plus the cost for the platform - that is only a legal question that the AZ Secretary of State can answer.
If you read the AZ Notary Manual - which you can download off the website - it states more specifically what I am saying. Further, the new laws on RON are also on the website.
I am not an attorney and cannot respond about the fees you can or cannot charge. Each state is different, but I do know in AZ the maximum you can charge for a notarization is $10 for each signature and/or document you notarize - which does not include a platform and/or administration fee.
There is a definite difference between Independent Notary Contractor and Independent Notary Business. If you have a RON platform that you operate as a Independent Notary Business - be sure that when you state on your invoice to the customer the Administration fee $$$ (for setting up document for notarization on a software platform), plus the Notary Public fee (i.e. 1 notarization $10; 2 notarization $20; etc.).
Further, you will find that under AZ Law - a notary cannot prepare legal documents unless you are a licensed document preparer in the state of Arizona. This requires classes and taking a test. All of this information is available through the State of Arizona website.
RON Platform storage fees - under AZ RON as a Notary you are required to keep an electronic journal and video up to 5 years. Upon your death/resignation as a notary and/or executor it is required that you provide the Secretary of State your book journal, electronic journal, and video to it. Therefore, if you read the RON requirements for AZ - it is noted you are to store the electronic journal and video on a separate encrypted drive. Thus the reason to download the electronic journal and video on the external encrypted hard drive. So, why are you paying a storage fee if you are an AZ RON Notary with such requirements?
