Have you ever been at a signing where you perceived that the signer was
not in their right mind: under the influence of something. What would you do in that situation?
I think we have the right to not notarize in that situation
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Yes I have and yes, I did refuse to notarize
In a local nursing and rehab facility (where most of the residents are pretty alert, lucid and sharp as a tack) - had a POA signing - gentleman was sitting in a wheelchair when I got there and all witnesses and intended AIF were present. I spoke with older gentleman, he seemed âokayâ - but just enough off to make me take it a step further. He started to have trouble staying awake so, with everyone gathered around I asked him âso, Mr. Smith, you wish to sign this power of attorney and have Mr. Jones here act as your agent?â - Mr. Smith looked at me, looked at Mr. Jones and responded 'I donât even know who that is!!!" (proposed AIF was a long-time, well-known neighbor).
Signing suspended. Outside, Mr. Jones apologized and said to me âI had a feeling something like that would happenâ. He paid full agreed fee for my time.
It happensâŠlisten to your gut. If you feel theyâre off, if youâre not comfortable, walk away - and donât let anyone bully you into proceeding. Also check your handbook/statutes - most states have provisions in their laws that will prohibit a notary from notarizing in these types of situations.
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Excellent question & like @LindaH-FL Yes, Iâve encountered it and yes I did step aside by stating that I couldnât notarize the document & why I couldnât.
Also, in general, when Iâm checking for current comprehension & cognitive skills, Iâll ask for a few minutes alone with the signer. This has been integral in more than one occasion . . .
Why, one might ask?
Once all others who may (or may not) be striving to âinfluenceâ the signer one way or the other have exited the room, the signer will demonstrably express a sigh of relief. They will then thank me for the ability to speak with them alone because they felt pressure or were definitively being coerced into signing the document. I was compensated for my time. Of course, no fee charged for notarizations.
A good thing to know. Yes, trust your instincts as theyâre normally spot-on. Know your notarial handbook front-to-back & regulations so that youâre clearly within your rights when you make a choice.
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OH yes that is so true!! Thanks for sharing 
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Wow! Good for you. POAs and wills are espceially troubling to me for that very reason.
In my case it was an adult that was possibly high or drunk 
Yes. And I have declined to notarize, then explained why.
With an aging population, I expect there will be an increased number of situations where vigilance on the part of the Notary will be vital to help avoid fraud and protect vulnerable people.
Iâd like to add⊠Do not let yourself be influenced by competition, either. âWell, if you wonât, Iâll just call another Notary!â Good luck with that, Mr Whoever.
We each have to maintain our own standards. If you feel your actions are correct, stick to your guns and walk.
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good advice Thanks judikidd
I agree. âOk find another Notary, let them get subpoenaed or face litigation for lack of due diligence.â
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Depending on your Stateâs regulations, you may have an obligation to suspend the engagement.
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I have had signers who expressed a desire to drink or do drugs during the signing. I told them, of course, I would have to adjourn the signing if they decided to partake. Signers must be in their right mind and signing of their own free will.
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the things people say LOL
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This is why you need to know your stateâs statutes. Your statutes lists the reasons to be able to refuse completing a notarial act for customers or loan signings. It really isnât about our feelings or personal judgements. The Florida state statute states the following: âRefusal of Notary Services: If you are asked for notary services and would like to refuse, you may wish to consult with an attorney regarding any concerns you may have in providing the requested notary services.(Section 117.021â. Of course there are other reasons, such as mental capacity, medical disabilities, discriminations, and violations. We just cannot refuse services due to our personal feelings, emotions, or personal beliefs.
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Just excuse yourself from that signing. Especially if people are being coached.
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Iâll definately check my stateâs regulation, or just call the NNA
I had a weird/shady situation during my first couple of months of being a loan signing agent. This was literally my 5th signing so not a lot of experience. Sorry if this is a long read.
I had a refinance application (no notarizations). The package had the name of Mr. James Jackson (not the real name, of course) on it. I call to confirm with James and the man that answers the phone confirms he is James and confirms the appt. So of course, I assume I am meeting with James to sign the application docs. I get to the appointment, ask for ID, and the person gives me the ID and it says Mr. Kevin Jackson. So I ask where is James and he says âoh, that is my brother. He is bedridden but he is in the other room.â I ask is he able to speak and he says no. Sure enough, James Jackson is in a hospital bed in an adjoining room, incoherent and clearly not able to communicate or understand what is going on. So I ask him if he has an executed POA and he said yes. I sit for about 20 minutes while he looks for this POA and canât find it. I call the lender and he said go ahead with the application and Kevin Jackson can follow up and send in the POA later.
So while we are going through the application, he mentions that he has been through the application process before with two other lenders and shows me two separate stacks of paper sitting on the dining room table (RED FLAG!). I ask what happened with those applications and why is he having to do it again and he feigns ignorance and says he doesnât know. Then he talks about all of the stuff that he plans to do with the money (the refinance was a cash out and he was going to receive about 70k) - NOTHING related to his brother - be it paying for medical expenses or doing things around the house. All personal, material things. He seemed extremely comfortable with telling me these things for some reason.
I conclude the application and when I get back to complete my closing report, I write a note to the signing company that hired me as well as to the lender to advise that I think there is something strange going on with this guy and that they may want to look closely at the POA (if they even get it). They acted like they did not care that there was possible fraud going on and was only concerned with if I would make the last Fed-ex pickup (SMH). I was shocked and kinda annoyed and I already had it in my head that if they offered the final closing to me, that I would not accept. The guy just gave me bad vibes.
I didnât get an offer for the final closing but my curiosity got the best of me about a month ago and I remembered this situation and the guyâs name and went into the Land and County Records website and saw that the refinance was executed. Hopefully, the notary that completed it checked for the POA.
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wow thatâs quite a story, desperate lenders may be dealing with desperate people
I recently had a hospital signing where a woman wanted a man to sign a POA over to her. The man was semi-conscious and couldnât speak. The woman asked the man, who allegedly turned out to be her uncle, if he remembered that he was going to sign the POA. He wagged his head but she was standing over him. She then told me that she was the only one taking care of Uncle X and that his children were up to no good and she had filed a restraining order against them. She wanted half his house upon his passing. I told her that her uncle was not aware of what he was signing and couldnât even hold a pen. She said her lawyer told her to get him to make any mark on the paper and she could get the POA. I told her that before we could use a signature by mark, he had to be cognizant of what he was doing and IF he was cognizant we would need two credible witnesses who are not beneficiaries of the document he was executing. In this case of using the signature by mark, I could not serve as one of the witnesses. I had to excuse myself from the signing. The scheduling company paid me the full fee.
A few months later I was called in for a purchase where the wife had to sign a Quit Claim. There were two witnesses present for her signature by mark but she was clearly drugged. I had to refuse. I was prompted to go back a second time with new documents and the same two witnesses were there. On this one she appeared to be in better shape and signed one document but refused to sign the journal. I had to leave. I was pressured to go back a third time despite me leaving a note on the order that she had refused to sign the journal.
On this third time the woman said her name and address but she absolutely refused to sign the journal. There was a new witness so she would also have to resign the Quit Claim. She was clearly fatiguing and tried to close her eyes to sleep. When her husband begged her to sign the document she said âyou sign it!â then she took the pen which was taped onto her fingers and tried to put it in her shoe. I couldnât see her actions as approval to sign the document and this was our third try. I was upset that they asked me to go back three times when it was obvious from the first that she was refusing to sign. You have to trust your judgement, we are there to protect the rights of our signers.
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WOW! And I thought my story was crazyâŠ
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Yes I have.
One was general Notary work. A man was in bed and obviously fairly close to death. He was to sign a durable power of attorney to his son, but he couldnât even come close to signing his name or making a mark. I asked the man a few simple questions (What day is it? What city are we in?) and he couldnât answer them. I explained to them why I could not notarize the document. Both he and the son apologized and said they had waited too long. The son tried to give me a tip for coming - which I refused. Such a sad situation.
The other instance was a spouse who seemed reluctant to sign refinance documents. She and her husband had a few harsh words and it became apparent she knew nothing about the refinance until I arrived for the closing. I told them I could not Notarize the documents because she was not signing freely of her own free will. She smiled. He became more upset. I left and told the signing service and lender what happened.
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I wouldnât continue. If I had to, I would make an excuse that puts the blame on me.
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