As a long time real estate agent, one of the newer things is to ask us to produce a floor plan using a phone app and an interior inspection and photographs. This is typically the job of an appraiser who gets paid a whole lot more. Now, i just received a request for a notary signing and an interior property inspection, photos and measurement!!
I also just completed an order to help a man fill out a 71 page form for a product liability lawsuit. There was no notoization on the form. Now, in addition to appraisers, we are supposed to be paralegals!
I take orders from a company that wants a floor scan using an app on the phone. It’s usually a pretty new house.
Im really too disabled to do that. Climbing multiple levels is not my bag any longer. Not part of notary duties though. I get those requests from banks usually.
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Where are you located, Marilyn? I am in Washington State and my notary rules prohibit notaries from assisting anyone filling out forms. Hiring companies contact me to request me to do all sorts of things that I am not permitted to do as a Notary Public in Washington. Check the rules for your location. Just be careful. If something goes wrong, you don’t want that man to be able to turn around and claim that you instructed him how to fill out the forms, what to say, etc.
RCW 42.45.230
Prohibited acts.
(1) A commission as a notary public does not authorize an individual to:
(a) Assist persons in drafting legal records, give legal advice, or otherwise practice law;
(b) Act as an immigration consultant or an expert on immigration matters;
(c) Represent a person in a judicial or administrative proceeding relating to immigration to the United States, United States citizenship, or related matters;
(d) Receive compensation for performing any of the activities listed in this subsection; or
(e) Provide court reporting services.
(2) A notary public may not engage in false or deceptive advertising.
(3) A notary public, other than an attorney licensed to practice law in this state, or a Washington-licensed limited license legal technician acting within the scope of his or her license, may not use the term “notario” or “notario publico.”
(4) A notary public, other than an attorney licensed to practice law in this state or a limited license legal technician acting within the scope of his or her license, may not assist another person in selecting the appropriate certificate required by RCW 42.45.130.
(5) A notary public, other than an attorney licensed to practice law in this state, or a Washington-licensed limited license legal technician acting within the scope of his or her license, may not advertise or represent that the notary public may assist persons in drafting legal records, give legal advice, or otherwise practice law. If a notary public who is not an attorney licensed to practice law in this state, or a Washington-licensed limited license legal technician acting within the scope of his or her license, in any manner advertises or represents that the notary public offers notarial services, whether orally or in a record, including broadcast media, print media, and the internet, the notary public shall include the following statement, or an alternate statement authorized or required by the director, in the advertisement or representation, prominently and in each language used in the advertisement or representation: “I am not an attorney licensed to practice law in this state. I am not allowed to draft legal records, give advice on legal matters, including immigration, or charge a fee for those activities.” If the form of advertisement or representation is not broadcast media, print media, or the internet and does not permit inclusion of the statement required by this subsection because of size, it must be displayed prominently or provided at the place of performance of the notarial act before the notarial act is performed.
(6) Except as otherwise allowed by law, a notary public may not withhold access to or possession of an original record provided by a person that seeks performance of a notarial act by the notary public. A notary public may not maintain copies or electronic images of documents notarized unless the copies or images are maintained by an attorney or Washington-licensed limited license legal technician acting within his or her scope of practice for the performance of legal services or for other services performed for the client and the copies or images are not maintained solely as part of the notary transaction.
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Im in colorado and have been a notary since 2001. I have never been asked to do anything other than notarial acts - mostly real estate closings, loan closings, car titles, powers of attorney and the like. That is until the infamous debt relief stuff. After doing a couple, i will no longer participate. This last thing i got last minute. Itcwas asking for a notary signature. To be honest, i was in a hurry. Printed stuff and took off. As the man was completing his forms, there was no notary required. The thing was odd as there is an office of the attorney in denver. There was no phone number for the assignnent company and no mailing label. I let the assigning company that i felt this should not have gonevto a notary to begin with. Thay finally closed it out. I really have little expectation of getting paid.
I guess its time to look up colorado’s laws.
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My state has a similar law, 26 VSA § 5345. Prohibitions; offenses.
(e) A commission as a notary public shall not authorize an individual to assist a person in drafting legal records, give legal advice, or otherwise practice law.
This is different than the law in some states. It’s pretty clear that being a notary does not add any authorization to assist in drafting legal records, etc. But it also doesn’t take away any authority that either isn’t regulated to begin with, or is authorized by a different law.
Can a mom help a son register his first car, even though the mom is a notary? Sure, because filling out car registration forms isn’t normally practice of law. Can I advise someone on whether they are eligible to register to vote in VT? Yes, because I’m an elected election official.
Can a notary who doesn’t advertise a service of helping to fill out legal forms do so anyway, when hired as a contractor to do so? That would depend on whether the hiring party is a lawyer, and what the laws in the relevant jurisdiction are about what kind of tasks a lawyer may delegate to a contractor, and how the lawyer has to supervise the contractor. So one would have to look outside the notary law to find the answer.
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Agree Carmen. I also was wondering what state(s) with these requests and if multi-states involved such as person making request in one state and property location in another.
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Colorado has an excellent notary handbook: https://www.sos.state.co.us/pubs/notary/files/notaryHandbook.pdf
Quite possible. That is the challenge here in Notary Cafe, deciphering/discerning where the poster is located so that we may understand whether it applies to our own circumstances. I always worry about newbies reading something in these threads and taking it as gospel for how they should operate their notary public or notary signing agent business in their state.
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There is a difference between helping someone fill out a document/form and drafting one. We here in FL cannot draft documents either but we CAN help them fill out a form…with info they provide…we merely write in what they tell us and under their supervision.
JMO
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OK here in Washington I present the loan document, point out the question the borrowers need to answer, and point out where they are being requested to sign/date, etc. But I myself do not fill in the borrowers loan documents with their answers. Maybe rules are different in Florida, or maybe we are talking about the same thing, just expressing differently.
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Not just loan docs, Carmen. Like OP’s situation…help him fill out a 71-page form. She can fill in the blanks with info provided by signer but she cannot fill it out with info on her own and she cannot draft/create the document needed.
OK for me that applies to general notary work as well. If someone brought to me a blank fill-in-the-blank Last Will and Testament or Advance Directive, Health Care or Financial Power of Attorney – whatever the document is – I still would not fill in the blanks for them with the information they provide me. That’s just me, Linda. But I am not going to be held responsible nor want them to give them an opportunity to accuse me of filling it out incorrectly. For me, the signers complete their own forms. If they need assistance filling them out, they can have a friend or family member assist with that. I check IDs, willingness/understanding, and provide the notarization. If there is an issue and they file a complaint against me, it would be hard for me to explain/justify this to my insurance company why I took it upon myself to assist the signers in filling out their documents. If there is an error or it later causes legal issues for them, the signer could turn around and accuse ME of making the mistake myself and I would have no defense. Again, that is me. Ultimately what any notary public chooses to do is their personal decision. But that is the reason I would not do it.
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I am in Washington and my state’s rules prohibit notaries from providing any advice or actively preparing a document’s content.
From NNA:
A notary cannot “help a signer prepare their legal document” because their role is strictly to verify the identity of the signer and witness their signature, not to assist in drafting or completing the document itself; essentially, a notary cannot provide legal advice or actively participate in preparing the document’s content, as this would be considered the unauthorized practice of law unless they are also a licensed attorney.
In your example about a notary who is a mom helping his son register his first car… I would say moms give their kids advice all the time. But in that case, the mom would likely not be notarizing the kid’s document.
Thanks for the good content.
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The contrary case is the I-9 form in California. There is no notarial act. A person completing the employer part on behalf of an employer isn’t acting as a notary. Nobody considers completing the form practice of law under ordinary circumstances.* People who aren’t lawyers do it all the time. But if a person is a notary but not a lawyer, California Immigration Forms Specialist, or USCIS Accredited Representative, the notary can’t complete the I-9 employer part because the CA SOS thinks it’s an immigration form.
- Helping to fill out the I-9 might be practice of law if there was uncertainty about whether the employee was a US citizen or authorized to work in the US.
I have my office manager fill out the i9s. She’s responsible for the hiring, and I trust her.
It’s an HR function.
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Well, we can agree. It’s certainly not a NOTARY.
California has an excellent handbook. At the bottom of page 7 of the California Notary Handbook:
Acts Constituting the Practice of Law
California notaries public are prohibited from performing any duties that may be construed as the practice of law. Among the acts which constitute the practice of law are the preparation, drafting, or selection or determination of the kind of any legal document, or giving advice in relation to any legal documents or matters. If asked to perform such tasks, a California notary public should decline and refer the requester to an attorney.
Filling out a legal/financial form on behalf of a signer is not a notarial act either – no matter what state we may reside, it constitutes unauthorized practice of law which is not permitted by a notary who is not also a licensed attorney.
Any California notaries reading this who disagree may wish to contact their California Secretary of State (916) 653-3595. I just got off the phone with them. The person I spoke to referred me immediately to NNA guidelines and best practices. CA SOS recommends instructing the requester to fill in the forms (legal docs, loan docs, POA docs, etc) themselves, or have someone else assist with filling in their forms, or to contact an attorney. But it should not be done by the notary who is performing the notarization.
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The only reason people use notaries for several contract type jobs is they don’t have to pay for a criminal background check and they’re hiring someone who is bonded.
There is ProxyPics which is taking pictures of properties
Virtual Site Inspections that do a lot of different things
Metro Inspections that does business verification visits
Sand Castle that provides various onsite services. Photos of property, leaving collection letters, getting a banker on the phone so they could confront someone about not responding to requests for loan repayment. I found the assignments very uncomfortable.
So notaries can get contacted by all kinds of companies that have nothing to do with acting as a notary.
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