Where I live the local county clerk is responsible for notaries, notary practices, processes and standards. I had some GNW this week that the signer presented a state issued id that was not a typical id. I won’t go into what it exactly was but it was a state issued picture id that he was assured would work for any identification needed. I had not seen one of these before and in our notary handbook there was no reference to it, but I told the client I would call the clerk’s office to inquire about its use for identification purposes for notarization. My local clerk, not an office assistant, the clerk herself refused to answer the question. Stating she can’t tell me what is an acceptable form of identification and that it was up to me to determine that. I asked her if she couldn’t answer the question then who could since her office governs, these matters in my state and county. Here reply was call the secretary of state, which I did, already knowing their response because this office has refused to answer questions in the past. The secretary of states office always, including this instance, referred me back to the county clerk who has authority over notary policy, standards and procedures for their county. In my state, each county governs this, so each county can be different. I explained to them that I was aware of that and had already contacted my county clerk but she refused to answer the question. They couldn’t understand here refusal, as the question was not one of legal advice and instructed me to reach out to the district attorney and file a complaint against her. But, that doesn’t answer the question, so it left me with having to try and determine the right course of action. I refused to accept the id and didn’t do the notarization, but there has to be some sort of covering and guidance for us, when the normal process doesn’t give clarity and answer the question. The answer can’t be we won’t tell you, figure out what to do on your own. This experience has furthered solidified my feeling that as a notary, at least where I live and work, you’re on an island and left to determine what is right yourself, and God help you if you make a mistake. I don’t think most notaries can afford to keep an attorney on retainer, I know I can’t, and shouldn’t have to for non-legal questions, and using google shouldn’t be the go to for answers as it was suggested to me by the secretary of states office. This makes being a notary far more risky than necessary. I am not sure that in the end, the risk we take here in my county and state, at least, is worth the money you make as a notary. What is it like in your state and county?
AR SOS…who usually gives the same ‘ask your lawyer’ response. Wondering what the ‘state-issued ID’ you questioned was. In AR, I frequently see a Concealed Handgun Carry License (has photo, #, issue/expiration date) and I do accept those.
FL SOS - and I, too, get the answer “speak with an attorney”. The only time I’ve gotten a straight answer from them was when I questioned about my ability to sign the language at the end of those old Promissory notes stating we certify that the property description/address in the note matches the description contained in mortgage (for the life of me I can’t think of the name of that statement). Anyway, I was told FL notaries are not authorized to sign that statement as it is not a notarial act.
The client reached out to me through this site, so I will keep his information private. My main frustration is not the document or issues that we face, it is that the agency whether SOS as in your case, or the county clerk’s office in mine, shrugs their shoulders and says figure it out, but those same agency’s will fine you, or take your commission if you make an error that they deem at a level to do so. It shouldn’t be for us, that if the guidelines aren’t clear that the governing body can’t give us guidance especially if the question is not one of legality as I was told mine wasn’t. My SOS says the clerk should have answered and is obligated to do so, as she has the authority over notaries. However, they will not. I can only assume because they themselves aren’t sure and are protecting themselves from recourse. My only recourse is to call her boss, the district attorney for the county and file a complaint against her. While that may address this issue, I think it may cause further issues down the road with her office and myself. It kind of makes you feel helpless. To further make it even more stressful, every county clerk can have different guidelines and what is ok in one, may not be acceptable in another.
Yes, it seems nobody ever wants to answer a question, leaving the notary to try and figure out what they want or will accept, when a simple answer from them would bring clarity to the process.
I wouldn’t file the complaint - but I would ask the DA the question…when (s)he tells you to talk to the county clerk, then tell them how they refused to answer…let the DA make the decision. This way you’ve reported it but you’ve not filed a complaint.
JMO
takenotenotary services: From what I can see when clicking on your photo, you’re located in TN. Does TN have a notary handbook? If so, are the allowable forms of ID listed? And, just out of curiosity, what was the state-issued photo ID that was presented (just in case any of us ever encounters one)?
In California, the SOS is our governing/commissioning office. I’ve found it best to send an email with my question(s) and get their answer in writing. When calling in, the answer may vary from person to person, depending on who you talk to. Or, they simply tell you to seek an attorney’s advice. Yes, very unfortunate. But, I guess they’re just saying they cannot interpret the law and if that particular law is ambiguous, oh well … 
We do have a handbook and I did reference it for that. I ended up calling to be sure if it was or was not acceptable because the client was adamant that the issuing agency assured him it was viable for all identification purposes. I reached out as a courtesy to the client. I declined it, and didn’t notarize the document, but the frustration is in the fact that the agency that has oversite of the process won’t answer questions about the process and said it was up to me to determine if It was acceptable. That’s the same agency that would then turn around and possibly fine me if they deemed it was not acceptable.
In Washington, we have a state-issued notary guide by the dept of licensing and notary commission. Where Washington State law is silent, I rely on NNA and SPW’s guidelines for best practices (so long as it does not conflict with my state law).
Would having a state ID guide on hand help you? I.D. Checking Guide, U.S. & Canada Edition 2025 | NNA
I also found this ID guide for Tennessee which is provided by TopShelf for training alcohol servers. Sorry if link won’t work, copy and past this: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://topshelfexpress.net/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/130181-ID-guide-folder-v2.pdf
I have the Tennessee notary handbook and I did use it for this. I called my county clerk for further verification for the client since he was adamant that the id when issued was valid for all identification purposes.
OK, I gotta ask. . . Was the signer unable or unwilling to produce any other sort of acceptable identification?
I always carry a copy of the standard issue Patriot Act form that we all have to fill out for loan package identification recording and show it to those signers that have difficulty producing acceptable ID (as called for on the form). It is a US. Government standard that provides guidance for me as the notary and clarity to the signer. When I’ve used it for helping a signer understand what’s required of me and them, one of two things happen: they either throw their hands up and call off the signing OR, they run down the hall and search through their stuff to find that passport or birth certificate to show me.
I’m in California where, in almost everything other than notary rules, anything goes. But we do have a nice notary handbook which answers most of my queries. But, my mantra in this business is “When in doubt, turn 'em out” in other words, don’t do it!
He was unable. This was a non loan signing, non patriot act, so the birth certificate wouldn’t have helped and he didn’t have a passport. The problem here is that each county governs notary rules and procedures, so what is acceptable in one county is not in another. It makes it hard when the county clerk who is in charge of those rules and procedures, elects to not answer the question. Even though by duty of her office she is supposed to do so, according to the SOS.
I completely understand.
I was in banking as a productivity analyst, fraud investigator and risk analyst for nearly 40 years and I developed my own reference manual over the years as I researched and/or learned stuff that was obscure or little-known but that could prove useful to me down the line. With that approach in mind, you may find it helpful to build your own “book” of stuff to remind/guide/explain challenging situations like the one you’ve described in your initial posting on this thread. Make this issue your “cause celeb” and find out everything you can about how to recognize it and overcome it. Record it all in your notes. Often, something will begin to emerge that helps you solve the problem. When you’re sure you’ve “got it”, you’ve become an expert! Now you can share your outcome with others on this site.
Of course this takes time. But, if you’re like Vermont Ashton or cNsa5 or one of the other sages on this site, you’ll soon join their ranks. Good luck to you, my friend!
Hi Carmen ~ like comment where Washington State Law is silent. I do email Notary Department and eventually receive response. In Kitsap County was assigned Notary job to redo previous Notary’s assignment. Signers offered me wine and I said no thank you against Code of Conduct rules for Notary. They informed me previous Notary helped them kill off a couple of bottles of wine.. I informed company that hired me of previous Notary’s behavior and they advised they were made aware and that is why the chose me for assignment. I emailed WA State Notary Department of this action because I new person’s name. Recently checked and viewed he is still listed with WA State Notaries and National Notary Assn. Another example of rules made and not enforced. Makes me wonder if ID regulations are being enforced.
Hi Alice! Seems like just a couple years ago we had our own separate notary division in Washington, then they lumped us in everyone else with Dept of Licensing as a cost-saving measure. Fewer people and fewer people covering more and more departments. Sometimes it feels like the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing LOL.
Anyway I called the Washington notary division number recently just to hear what they would say to the notary on here arguing that valid U.S. passport card was not enough for her to confirm her signer’s identity. The guy I spoke with at the notary division (Jay) just casually says, “Heck yeah, I am pretty sure a U.S. passport card is OK, it’s a federal ID after all.” And I had to flat-out tell him thinking so wasn’t enough – that I was calling for the Washington notary commission’s clarification. He was quiet for a moment, then asked me if he should ask one of his coworkers or his supervisor for clarification and I had to say YES OF COURSE, PLEASE GO ASK YOUR SUPERVISOR and please provide the statue you are referencing. I wanted to double-check in case it turned out rules on identifying signers had recently changed (they haven’t) and if I was wrong (I’m not.) But what got me was the whole, gee, I think so, but should I ask a supervisor? Do they not get that we call for specific guidance on our state notary rules/statutes, not for their personal opinions? Sheesh. 
And there use to be a page that made it very easy for the public to see alllll the notary mistakes, fines, suspensions, revocations, etc. They should bring that page back!!!
Now you have to do a specific search on their website to look for the revoked or suspended notary licenses:
Can you please private message me the name of the previous notary who helped your signers polish off wine? I’m curious enough to follow and see if she/he gets disciplined. How long ago did you submit the complaint?
Was it state issued? Ive used those often for someone who does not drive. Its going to be an interesting next election, where it might just be that ids will he required!
It was an id issued by a state government agency, but not one apparently that can be used for notarization purposes. I say apparently, because the county clerk refuses to say yes or no, but for me to determine if it was acceptable for that purpose. Here in Tennessee the county clerk, not the SOS overseas notaries and all the rules and processes. It wasn’t listed in the Tennessee Notary Handbook but I called because the client was adamant the issuing agency said it could be used for all identification purposes. I ended up not notarizing the document. It is just frustrating that the answer from the county clerk was basically for me to figure it out myself.
The outcome in this case was I refused to notarize the document because it is unclear if it would have been acceptable since the county clerk refused to answer. I have not filed a complaint as of yet with the district attorney as the SOS suggested.