Totally new situation and lengthy so I’ll do the cliff notes version. The company that I was working with has been mentioned here and in not a positive manner but I thought, let me give them a chance. (1st issue) There is a language barrier to overcome. (2nd issue) They did not set an appointment, just gave me a time frame to have the Loan Mod signed and returned. (ok, I can work with that but weird) (3rd issue) They told me documents were being downloaded and I could print at any time. This actually took another couple of days. (4th issue) Contacted customer to confirm appointment for loan mod. She sounded feeble and asked me, “Exactly what is a loan mod?” (5th issue) Tried contacting the company to find out where the documents were and to say something about the woman’s lack of knowledge of what she was signing. That was impossible. They would not respond for almost 2 days. (5th issue) Finally I sent a message and told them to reassign the order. (That simple) Within a matter of minutes my phone was ringing. Didn’t answer the 1st time; did the 2nd. She asked why I was cancelling, and I told her EVERYTHING. She sent me the name of the Title Company & the Mortgage Company & asked that I verify who they were & to do the job. Package was downloaded immediately. (6th issue) Moving forward, client is not feeble and very testy, states that she had just found out that the money she had paid the last 3 months was not toward her house payment but this program for loan mod; same amount as her mortgage. (???) (7th issue) She refused to sign the Promissory Note in the package and called her mortgage company. (8th issue) The girl she spoke to, (I have the first name) told her to cancel the appointment with me immediately & not to sign anything else that the Promissory Note was not part of the package and I WAS SCAMMING HER!
Mortgage Company is reputable, at least they better be, they are the same as ours.
I was scheduled to meet the client today at 12:30 to complete the signing but my gut is saying…stay as far away from that situation as I can! Shredding these documents & not answering the phone to any of these people! Have any of you ever???
I probably would not have lasted through that many issues.
Today, I would have some flexibility. But if I had a situation like that with an elderly person back when I was an EMT, I would have been required by law to contact the police and the state agency that protects the elderly to report possible elder abuse on the part of the hiring party. If you have any sort of state license such as nurse, LPN, EMT, teacher, teaching aid, or the like, this rule might apply to you.
That is definitely a situation that puts us in a rough spot. If we suspect something at the table, we cant stop a signing because that would constitute legal advice. I was in your situation before, being a mandated reporter. That is exactly why I refuse to do anything with reverse mortgages. I feel they are not always honest with people especially in the regard that they dont understand that their kids are kicked out when they perish.
Reverse mortgage signings are preceded by the application that a notary witnesses. And they come with a book that explains it all, and requires attendance to a workshop about reverse mortgages. Signers should be aware of the process by the time we go notarize the loan. Many of the reverse mortgage I do is not the first one the signer has been involved in.
Suspecting a signer is not signing of their own free will or with any understanding of what they are signing or is being bullied into signing and halting a signing isn’t practicing law or giving legal advice. It’s always up to the notary to determine if a signer is aware of what they are doing.
I once did an application for a reverse with a man whose wife had dementia and she kept saying are they taking our house? And was really upset that she had not read anything about what she was signing.
I called the company that hired me and told the service I would not go back to notarize that loan because the husband needed PoA for his wife I would not be able to notarize her signature on anything.
Sure enough I received a request to sign the loan and I called and asked if it had him with PoA for the wife and it didn’t so I didn’t go back. No way.
It isn’t legal advice to just pick up one’s stuff and leave.
Just to clarify here
- Notaries do not witness all reverse mortgage apps. Many are done without a signing agent conducting them.
- Workshop? Our “training” when we took our reverse was a phone call and voila!! Certificate issued. And I’ve done many reverse mortgages that were conducted the same way.
- Signers are aware? Most are…some not, especially those with early dementia (or denied dementia.) We can only confirm they know.
Loved how you handled the POA issue…kudos to you for picking up on that. I would have done the same and refused without a POA. Sadly, they probably found someone not as savvy - I’d have followed the property records for that property and see if the reverse was recorded and find out the name of the notary who just didn’t care.
JMO
I’ve done a lot of applications. I’m not a loan officer I don’t know all that much.
But people who sign that type of loan and read NOTHING - you can’t fix that.
I see the online workshop and - I don’t know. I’ve read the workbook that is printed with the loan. If people sign a loan after reading that - or without reading it - I don’t really take responsibility for that. My favorite reverse mortgage signing was with a 92 year old who was doing his 3rd reverse and it was for an 8 year term and he said at 100 he’d have to think about it if he was going to do it again. He was already well past life expectancy but he was sharp as a tack and had the most gorgeous place overlooking Moses Lake.
I’m not a big fan of the transaction but accept reverse signings.
My hope is they have kids wbo do read that stuff.
“she had just found out that the money she had paid the last 3 months was not toward her house payment but this program for loan mod; same amount as her mortgage. (???)”
Sounds to me like she got involved in some ‘we’ll get your debt reduced’ scam and the actual Loan Mod from Lender ripped that bandage off.
Hi Jennifer. I’m confused by your comment ‘kicked out’. People have to be 62+ years of age to get a Reverse Mortgage. At that age, their kids are likely in their forties. Why would they still be living with their 62+ year old parents?
Respectfully, Guy
I’ve seen adult kids living with Mom and Dad like it’s normal. But hopefully these kids have their own plans for when Mom and Dad aren’t around. A lot of signers have kids who don’t want to mess with an estate when Mom and Dad go - so they don’t care what happens to the house - it’s not their house. But are there kids living with parents doing a reverse that don’t understand how a reverse works? I mean - they can keep the house if they pay off the reverse mortgage. I don’t ever worry about the personal lives of signers. That’s way out of my lane.
Well Guy. Im 46 and both my husband and I moved back to my mothers house 5 years ago. She is now 75 and has numerous joint problems off and on. She has had her knees replaced 2x, a hip, shoulders, another hip coming soon. My brother who never married had been here with her until a tragic accident took him. I couldn’t handle the driving back and firth taking care of 2 houses. I had proposed to her that i remodel part of her house so I have my own bedrooms, livingroom, bathroom in basement level. Just someone here to know shes safe and not laying on a floor. I cook her dinner every day, take care of her cats, mow the grass, do the cleaning. Saves her a lot of money by not paying someone to come do it. Thats why people in their 40’s may be with the parent.
We should all be so lucky when we age.
Not unusual in California, every middle-aged surfer I knew in San Diego was still living with his parents.
I am 61 yr old, my kids are 28 and 26 years old. (Don’t know where you came up with your age of 40 yrs old) My son is moved out, married and has kids of his own. My daughter who is 26 still lives at home. With rental prices sky high there is no way for her to be able to afford a place on her own. Plus she suffers from severe anxiety, panic attacks and more. We have things in place that if we pass, she will get the house and be able to afford it.
We do not necessarily know the capacity of the signer until we are present. If it is clear that a signer doesn’t understand what he/she is signing then you must leave. I had to go back three times for a signer because she was incapacitated. The first time her husband said she was still on her sleep medicine, the second time she partially started to sign her document but stopped, the third time she refuse to go anywhere near the paper. Her husband had two witnesses present but I packed up and left.
Terrible situation. There are some scams out there where unscrupulous people tell the home owner not to pay the mortgage for three months and they will organize a forbearance of some other financial deal. A notary might be unwittingly part of this. The Escrow Officer was protecting her client but calling you a Scammer is unethical and can be construed as slander. I would call that EO once out of the signing and explain to her that her comment was insulting and potentially damaging to your reputation.
I am sorry that happen to you. One flag, and I am done. No transaction in the world is worth all of this. You have to protect yourself at all cost. Be careful!
I would have never gotten past issue #1.
I did! I do believe I was caught up in the middle of something. I explained to all that as soon as the word “scammer” was used, I wanted no part of it. I then filed a complaint that I had been called that. If nothing else comes out of it, I do hope they teach their people to be careful when/where they use that word. This woman had been making her monthly payments. I don’t know how she got involved in a loan mod. I hate to have such a suspicious nature, but it is such a necessity now. This is a good area for “these people” to prey upon the older generation.