I’m going to look into the potential legal problems a notary public could face being offered an additional fee to provide witnesses for what an agency like OneNotary (Mill Valley, CA) did today that lost me their signing offer. They were asking about a Will that had 2 witnesses on the document that wasn’t being notarized.
Nothing seems to be in black or white to look into the legality of a notary seeking “professional witnesses” you’d likely have to pay for coming with you that OneNotary compensates back to the notary. Especially related to a Will in California that isn’t even being notarized!
If a court summons the paid for witnesses, they might turn out to be unchecked criminals who the notary is responsible for due to paying them. The notary could possibly be sued as being bribed by the agency with payment to hire witnesses.
I kind of disagree with this and think you’re overthinking it. The company is reimbursing you the fee you had to pay the witness…they’re not bribing you to find one. Normally they don’t even offer a witness fee until the notary asks to be reimbursed for it.
I didn’t like to provide them and left it up to the signers.
California has strict laws. A notary almost never has anything to do with a Will in California. We don’t notarize Will’s here unless an attorney puts in the notarial language that is 99% discarded due to California laws.
Furthermore, the Will’s witnesses are usually involved someway in the signer’s life. If a court summons the Will document it could be challenged if the witnesses were bribed being paid to do so. Professional witnesses for Will’s, really?
In California notaries are also limited to what our services can provide for extra fees. If you are caught bribing witnesses to sign a Will, the court looking into its legitimacy could possibly dismiss the Will as unlawful triggering a lawsuit.
It’s a non-issue for me. Any job offer that comes through with a requirement for the notary to provide a witness is a hard pass for me.
Y’know, I think the exposure is of a different sort. When a notary is paid by the signing service, that is a taxable event. When “witness” fees are included in those payments, it is not clear who is actually making payment to the witness, is it? Albeit, the amount of payment is usually around $25 (inconsequential), it is nevertheless a bona fide “payment” and although it falls far below the $600 taxable threshold, it kinda mucks up the books, at least as I see it.
It is for that reason I do not often take witness jobs and when I do, I ask that the signing service pay the witness directly (which they dislike doing). I want no part of pass-through payments to people I don’t officially “employ”. I am an independent contractor and I prefer to stay clear of any entanglements and one-offs. I know I have an obligation as an officer of the state to perform all the notarizations I can legally and professionally perform but involving people as witnesses and paying them myself is too dicey for me. I let the signing service or the document signers find and pay the witnesses. I can never find witnesses in towns I don’t live in, anyway. Usually, the signers grab a neighbor.
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Is it too much to ask that states require signers to provide the witness(es)…ok…dripping with sarcasm here.
i, too, do not take jobs requiring a witness even if the signing company adds a witness fee. if i provide the witness, it puts the onus on me to vouch for that person’s integrity. that is a lesson learned after i did so as a brand new notary.
a few months ago, it was discussed on notary cafe about the possible legal ramifications of notaries providing witnesses. the way i see it, my responsibility is that i verify the identification of the parties present/signing the documents in their proper capacity to do so. if documents require witnessing, then it is incumbent upon the loan officer and the title company to advise their signers of the requirements and to have the signers make those arrangements. it is not the notary’s duty, and it sets up the notary for a lawsuit if the witness(es) they provided breach(es) personal/transactional information,
back in the day, as a new notary, yes, i did provide witnesses, and yes, i understood i was vouching for the integrity and discretion of that person. after the 3 time, and the forum post, i discussed with the person i was using my concerns. that person agreed, and while still being willing to be my witness, i have not done so since.
i have no issue, as a notary, acting as a witness for another notary but agree that the signing company should make the payment separately from the notary’s fee and payment. this then puts the responsibilities of professionalism, ethics, and discretion on the proper parties.
