In this world everyone everywhere seems to be striking, auto mechanics, burger flippers, hotel workers, movie and tv industry. Who is here to help us notaries get better pay than when I started 17 years ago. I get so many low ball offers and never take them but trying to get people to pay over $90 -$125 is tough. Some few do but most underpay us. Seems everyone else’s pays are going up. Can the NNA stand up for us and demand more. After all the appraisers fees have gone way up what about us notaries that put up with late packages, grumpy signers etc. We do all the foot work and have all our insurance and continuing learning for what?
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As long as there are notaries who will accept unprofitable jobs & people falsely promoting Loan Signings (NNA is promoting one of them) as lucrative, nothing will change.
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I know and isn’t it a shame.
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One of the biggest challenges I see is the proliferation of YouTuber’s - get rich quick people that are hyping the notary world as a fast path to cash. People see them online and get caught up in the excitement they generate. How can you blame them with there is well produced video with a good looking hype person tempting them with fool’s gold.
Sadly they don’t understand it is difficult building a successful notary business. They jump in with the low cost to enter this world and think their new Wordpress website will bring them dollars. Then they learn about signing agents and how they can tap that for potential opportunities, not realizing it is shark infested waters. While I am not saying that all signing agents are bad, but by in large the keep a healthy chunk paying out a much smaller amount. And let’s not forget about those who are out and out thieves and never pay you for your work.
So they accept the lower fees and drive the market down for those who’ve worked for years to build something that makes them a living. It’s a brutal cycle.
The notary world is due for a serious correction and the NNA could be a force to drive change. We also need state governments to raise the barrier of entry into this world. That would go a long way in helping us improve our fees.
But it starts with those on this forum and beyond to also help drive change. That is the reason I decided to join Notary Cafe. I’ve been coming here for years and I sincerely appreciate the collection of people who help give this place energy, it’s why I finally joined. I decided I needed to step into the fray and help be an agent of change.
(Did not expect this to be what I put out there for my first post.)
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“The notary world is due for a serious correction and the NNA could be a force to drive change.” Not gonna happen. They promote the 6-figure guy.
“But it starts with those on this forum and beyond to also help drive change.” The only way to be an agent of change is to say NO to Low…and keep doing it and encourage ALL to do likewise. a rising tide raises all boats…
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Truer words were NEVER spoken.
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Concur with @Arichter 's perspective.
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@psedillo FYI: The NNA is a For-Profit business organization. Need more be said?
There is a separate, tiny subsidiary that is 501c3 - definitively NOT the entire organization.
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Here’s my two cents. Recently I have been passing up mortgage modifications offers, because most of the assignments paid only $40. Today a signing service called me an inquired if I would accept a mortgage modification assignment paying $60. After asking a few questions, I countered their offer with my fee of $100, they accepted. Here’s my point, most of us know the title companies charges hundreds of dollars in the closing to the borrower for a notary public service. Also, we know if the assignment comes via a signing service, they are getting paid too. Just to play “devil’s advocate”, we all must understand a basic business theory. That theory addresses the free market in which we operate, it is called “The invisible hand” it is a metaphor for how, in a free market economy, self-interested individuals operate through a system of mutual interdependence . With that being stated, it is easy to understand why currently fees are low. On those rare occasions, we will find ourselves in position to negotiate an above average fee. Otherwise, most occasions, these companies will hold steadfast to the lower fee. I am not advocating for low fees, just giving my two cents how I see things.
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We are first Public Officials, the government has established what we can legitimately charge people for our notarial services. As for the loan signing agents, that’s a hold different ballpark. As signing agents, we work in a free marketplace called capitalism, defined as an “economic and political system in which a country’s trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state”. With that being stated, there’s three major players - lender, title company, and signing services that we sell our services too. As #cNsa5 alluded to a correction is due to our industry. Due to technology advancements, it is easy to see fees staying low. Explosion in the population growth in Notary Publics/Loan Signing Agents. Oh yes, let’s not forget companies utilizing email and text blasts for mass notifications. It is really easy to see, we can not go back to the past. To be profitable in this business is not impossible, but we are going have to be more creative in driving our business.
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Hi there. I couldn’t agree more regarding pay & can’t imagine any signing agent who would disagree. I’ve mostly quit signings for random signing services due to the low ball offers & increasing number of tasks we are asked to do.
I was also extremely upset a few months ago when a lender cancelled a signing I was ready to walk out the door to go to because there were “irregularities” in the borrowers info. They told me they were calling to let her know. Well, this person called me when I didn’t arrive so I had to explain because she was screaming and THEN she wrote a horrible review online about me saying I cancelled her loan at the last minute!
Enough is enough between the title companies who are sugar sweet until you finish the job then write you off & to the borrowers who are increasingly bossy & rude.
I got lucky though & was hired part time at a local title company to be a title assistant & their only closer. I did 2 jobs directly for them & the owner told me she was looking for a part-time assistant. You never know, so canvassing your local title companies is an idea. We do most closings in house, but if it’s a remote closing I always get paid more–what we are really worth.
As far as unionizing, I found TONS of information & unions that help groups of independent contractors unionize. A new law was passed allowing us to do so. Here is a link about the law. If you’d like to discuss the idea further please message me. I’m all in.
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Thank you PG, I’ve been dwelling on this idea 2 months after I got started! Especially after my deal that happened today,(my current post is under Notary Dash and Prestigious Notary they don’t pay area. ) What the owner came back to me and typed, was the most ridiculous thing I’ve read in 6 months! If unionized, that woman would not be screwing so many notaries out of the pay she owes them, and myself included. I’m all for it. I followed the link and wanted me to sign up just to read it. I know, I know no big deal, but I’m so tired of having to unsubscribe from things!
@ProntotudeGirl Excellent! Congratulations on locating a “fit” for your professional skills! 
Also, thanks for the direct url link to the article.
To access the WAPO article, it requires a subscription. Considering the status of legacy media, it’s presumed that most Notary Cafe members don’t have a subscription to WAPO.
Could you take a screenshot of the article and paste it here in your post please? 
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Sorry. I don’t have a WAPO subscription either & I can read it just by clicking the link. Maybe search for the title of the article instead of clicking my link? It’s a really long article.
“Gig workers could find it easier to unionize under new ruling”
The National Labor Relations Board ruled Tuesday to broaden the requirements for independent-contractor classification, which could allow millions of new workers to organize, form unions and strike…
Found it someplace other than WaPo. Have at it.
Gig workers could find it easier to unionize under new ruling
The National Labor Relations Board ruled Tuesday to broaden the requirements for independent-contractor classification, which could allow millions of new workers to organize, form unions and strike
June 13, 2023 at 2:52 p.m. EDT
The National Labor Relations Board issued a new ruling Tuesday that makes it easier for Uber and Lyft drivers, construction workers, home health aides, and strippers to organize and join unions.
Existing labor law extends the right to unionize only to workers with employee status, excluding independent contractors. Tuesday’s board ruling broadens the factors considered in the federal government’s test for determining a worker’s status as an independent contractor or an employee.
“Applying this clear standard will ensure that workers who seek to organize or exercise their rights under the National Labor Relations Act are not improperly excluded from its protections,” NLRB Chair Lauren McFerran said in a statement.
The reversal of a 2019 independent-contractor decision could affect millions of low-wage workers across the United States. About 16 percent of Americans have earned income in the gig economy, according to a 2021 Pew research study.
In a 3-to-1 vote, Democratic board members sided against the Atlanta Opera, which has said that its hair and makeup stylists who are seeking to unionize are not employees but independent contractors. The NLRB ruled that the hair stylists are employees with union rights under the National Labor Relations Act, an about-face from the standard set in 2019.
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Google searched on @ProntotudeGirl 's referenced WAPO article title:
"The National Labor Relations Board issued a new ruling Tuesday that makes it easier for Uber and Lyft drivers, construction workers, home health aides, and strippers to organize and join unions.
Existing labor law extends the right to unionize only to workers with employee status, excluding independent contractors. Tuesday’s board ruling broadens the factors considered in the federal government’s test for determining a worker’s status as an independent contractor or an employee.
“Applying this clear standard will ensure that workers who seek to organize or exercise their rights under the National Labor Relations Act are not improperly excluded from its protections,” NLRB Chair Lauren McFerran said in a statement.
The reversal of a 2019 independent-contractor decision could affect millions of low-wage workers across the United States. About 16 percent of Americans have earned income in the gig economy, according to a 2021 Pew research study.
In a 3-to-1 vote, Democratic board members sided against the Atlanta Opera, which has said that its hair and makeup stylists who are seeking to unionize are not employees but independent contractors. The NLRB ruled that the hair stylists are employees with union rights under the National Labor Relations Act, an about-face from the standard set in 2019.
The board will now return to a 2014 framework for determining worker classification, rejecting a Trump-era test that elevated a worker’s “entrepreneurial opportunity” as the key factor in determining a worker’s employment status. The board’s new framework takes into account a variety of factors, including the extent of employer control over working conditions and whether a worker is being supervised.
The new rule could affect workers in a variety of sectors, from long-haul truck drivers to construction workers, who are often classified as independent contractors and denied the right to form unions and organize to improve working conditions.
“This case and the independent-contractor standard bears on the job quality of many workers in the United States,” said Brian Chen, policy director at Data & Society, a nonprofit technology research organization. “When workers are misclassified under the National Labor Relations Act, it deprives them of the collective bargaining that we know improves job quality, wages, and racial income and wealth gaps.”
The stakes are particularly high for workers in the app-based gig economy. High-profile companies such as Uber, Lyft and Instacart have poured tens of millions of dollars into ensuring that their workers remain classified as independent contractors. The decision could also be appealed in a federal court, where its survival would be uncertain.
The GOP-dominated labor board ruled in 2019 that Uber drivers are independent contractors and are not granted union protections under the National Labor Relations Act. That decision could now be overturned if Uber drivers try to unionize again.
Uber and Lyft did not immediately respond to a request for comment.
The Labor Department is also separately considering a new rule that would make it more likely for millions of workers, including those in the gig economy, to be classified as employees rather than independent contractors. That move would be separate from the NLRB decision.
That proposed rule could require companies that employ gig workers to provide basic benefits and protections, such as the minimum wage, overtime pay, and contributions to Social Security and unemployment insurance, that they currently do not receive."
When are people gonna stop talking about this.
When change happens.
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Never. It’s been going on for 30 years, but there’s always a newb who, despite all evidence to the contrary, totally believes a union will solve all problems OR they will get the big bucks after they’ve ‘proven themselves’ at a loss. So many newbs/so little work. It DOES get old.
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The NNA and Signing Services are the real problem. If you have kept your eyes really open, you may have noticed that the NNA has a convention for Signing Agents/Notaries, but did you know they have one for Signing Services as well? Yes, the NNA on its website allude to Signing Agents making 6 figure incomes. Most of us know that is unrealistic. The NNA tells us they can not advocate for us because it would violate the Sherman Antitrust Law, that is a crock. Then they work with Signing Services who take a good minimum of 50% of the fee to over 75% for their middle man effort. I have been doing this for 20 years now, our notary costs have increase significantly, yet we have absorbed all the costs. When costs go up the greedy Signing Service takes a larger cut because their costs have increased. Say what, they more than likely do not print doc’s, they have to travel expense, more than likely they do not even do BG checks on their employee’s so their costs have gone up far less than ours. Paper when I started cost about $24 for ten reams of letter, Staples now is over $50 for the same case. Let alone price for fuel. Yet Title companies still offer the same for the service. In part that is because the CFPB set a % for the cost of the consumer for a loan. Title expenses have risen, so they just take the fee offered for Notary Services and have reduced them like any business would to cut costs. We as Signing Agents are actually providing two services, Notarization of specific documents and then Signing Service for the rest of the documents. They hold us responsible for all errors, with as the CFPB once said there are over 5000 different documents out there. They are changing all the time, we are not trained or given notice of changes, but are held responsible to do them all correctly or go back at our expense to correct them, so we are held to a higher standard than just being notaries. Yet are shown no respect for our services. For those who do not respect what a service we provide and take low fees, it has allowed this to happen. I turn down all jobs that do not meet my fee. I get offers for signing to drive 150-200 miles round trip for $60, my time is worth more than that, Burger Kings pays $18 Hr here. That offer takes 4-5hrs of my time, does it make sense to take it and lose money. We are not providing free public services for Title Companies. Will it change, YES that is why the NNA and the Title Companies and others are pushing RON signings. Signing Services have not figured it out yet, but the hand writing is on the wall. One notary at the Title Company can do all the signings using RON and eliminate the Signing Service and the Notary and they can pocket that fee as well. Just my thoughts on the subject. The NNA is not your friend they are only out for their PROFIT!
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@daniel_stephens Excellent historical & current summation with appropriate candor.
In particular, the resonating & cogent points I’m in concurrence with are as follows:
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Yep, yep, yep, yep… totally spot on. And when it all goes to RON and in-house can’t handle it, those RON notaries will be hovering over their ‘accept’ buttons…just like now, hoping to get that ever-decreasing fee for the same reasons as they do now. All the entities currently conspiring to keep fees low will just keep on going.
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