So the NNA has a convention for signing services? Didn’t know that.
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The problem is that the NNA is part of the issue! They are the ones promoting this industry for the all mighty dollar they are a for profit business not matter what any one says. . Then they have notary gurus who get nominated as influencers of the year sponsoring the NNA Conference Booths as long as they pay their dues to be a part of it. Signing Services are a major problem if they would go away, because they are not regulated, owning a signing service’s don’t abide by any rules as long as they pay their dues at the end of the year like most of us self employed people. Signing Companies are considered the middle man if they are eliminated, then the notary can get full compensation as it is intended . Secretary of State who is the governing entity of this industry don’t do anything about it and are married to the NNA so its no help. Its a full circle problem.
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I’m getting low ball offers for $30! I don’t know who would accept them. I wouldn’t walk across the street for that. By the time I figure printing costs and gas/mileage expense to go to a FedEx drop I would either be going in the hole or working for nothing. Whoever is accepting these obviously can’t do math. I feel like responding that I’m not working for charity.
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You do realize the appraiser doesn’t receive the entire fee that is stated on the ALTA. They end up with about 1/3 of the fee. Additionally, the appraiser can no longer build a relationship with a lender, a realtor or other partners since the choice of who will appraise a house now lies in Russian Roulette.
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I’ve responded to signing services that I’m not running a charity. At this point I don’t care if I’m burning bridges since what they offer is insulting to us notaries.
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That Dodd-Frank regulation of apprasers was a direct response to the perceved monkey business that led up to the 2008 real estate crash. I can remember numorus examples of inflating values to boost the numbers on cash out refinances.
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Yes, that was my reference. I sat on a panel at a Wholesale Lender to select 2 AMCs in which to use. At the time, I ran a Mortgage Fraud department and we investigated many inflated and fraudulent appraisals. The problem with inflated appraisals is the Appraiser can state, “Professional Opinion” when reaching the value in relation to comps. Only when an appraisal was fraudulent could we go after the appraiser’s license.
The sad part was upstanding appraisers who had built relationships for decades immediately saw their profits cut in half. They were no longer appraising homes in the neighborhoods they knew best. Additionally, in order to make up for lost volume, the appraiser often had to travel up to 100 miles to get an order that used to be within 10 minutes. Every little bit dug at their bottom line.
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NNA has always been out for themselves. Do you notice how their newsletter always mentions certain states and ignores others? Could it be that their favorite signing services are in those states? When background checks first started, they managed to get signing services to require that the check go through them, even though all background checks are the same? And of course they charged up to DOUBLE what other checks cost. The NNA is NOT your friend.
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You are correct…greed is paramount.
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When I get an offer from Signing Services, it usually is for a Closing at least 50 miles away and the offered Fee is usually around $20.00! I always counter-offer with a price around $11.23 to $14.07. I try very hard to make them feel I am serious, so I usually add a comment to the affect of “…please send it over right now.” To be sure, I have NEVER heard back from them.
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LOL… next time try $15.0 and when they accept, tell 'em oopsie…decimal in wrong place… s/b $150. (and only 5 miles; not 50).
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It’s really sad because I have noticed these loan packages are getting bigger and alot of Title companies, Lenders, and Signing companies are DECREASING our pay. We deserve more respect in the industry and definitely better pay due to our current state of inflation and the situations we deal with on a daily basis.
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Exactly. it again! We need to talk about it more and keep talking about it.
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My sentiments exactly. I have wondered if there could be a notary union to go against the low ball pay that we are getting. Somebody have to help us in this situation as without the notary, these closings do not occur.
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Independent contractors really can’t unionize. But, if they could, what, exactly, do you think would happen? This is NOT a ‘one size fits all’ job. Meaning, no, I wouldn’t drive 25 miles for a Rev. Mtg. w/scans for $150, but I would walk across the street for 10 pages for $50.
The only way to get higher fees is SAY NO TO LOW. To do that we ALL have to figure out what profit we need to add to expenses. Then, we ALL have to say no if that figure isn’t met or exceeded. It’s really that simple…and that hard to do.
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Concur with @Arichter 's suggestive above. Here’s a GREAT technique to execute the process efficiently.
===>>> Here is a guideline for those new to this business sector that is quite helpful to create an individualized List of Fees for professional services provided in our industry . . .
NOTE: Current IRS mileage rate is = 65.5 cents/mile
It would be in your best interest to jot down all of the expenses associated with performing the services you provide within your service region to determine a baseline operating cost. Then, at that point, you can calculate the fees that will generate a net profit to determine if you’ll have a Profit or sustain a Loss at that rate.
There are many items to consider within your Overhead calculations. Here are a few to get you started:
• telephone expenses including cell phone equipment and monthly service fees
• office equipment and furniture; i.e., work chair, work desk, reliable dual-tray printer, trustworthy scanner, etc.
• Notarial stamps for Jurats, Acknowledgements, Notarial Name, Commission Expiration, etc.
• rent and utilities
• paper
• toner
• binder clips
• pens (inexpensive for one-time use)
• stationery and supplies including stamps & envelopes
• travel costs to & from signer locations (i.e., create a generic by county list)
• travel costs to & from FedEx/UPS/USPS, etc. (i.e., choose your favorite location OR the closest that will provide you with a receipt)
• business insurance
• business-related meals and entertainment
• professional association memberships
• annual background checks
• annual certification expenses
• legal and accounting fees
• tax preparation fees
• advertising and marketing costs; i.e., Google ads, yellow pages ad, website, business cards, or brochure
• Protection equipment; i.e., COVID-19 masks, hand sanitizer, wipes, etc.
AND many more!
Your individual overhead would also include the cost of fringe benefits; i.e., medical insurance, disability insurance, retirement benefits. Also, remember to include quarterly income tax payment to federal & state (as appropriate) and self-employment taxes.
======
If calculating all this accurately seems to be a bit overwhelming, reach out to your tax advisor and ask for guidance in this regard. 
======
Also, there is an excellent specific cost breakdown by one business owner for services within her [ @anon78047977 ] region & for her overhead:
"Ok for a seasoned already in business Signing Agent (meaning no start up costs to factor in, just on going costs)
Average Refinance
- 150 pages (300 when having to print 2 copies)
- 35 miles average miles to signing/from signing/to FedEx drop
- Print cost average .15 per page (Laser printer, standard paper. Note this is also the cost at Staples, FedEx Office in the area BUT I have actually calculated my real costs by dividing the number of pages I get from a toner kit, my drum kit, cost of paper etc. but I use this average of .15 because there are Notaries around who actually use outside printing)
- IRS mileage .56 per mile [current rate is .655] (you can use actual costs of gas, insurance, plus maintenance costs. I will use the IRS rate because it’s a good average and I also have Tolls I have to pay which I will not add in this example. Also later I kind of use this amount as a “catch all” for other expenses. Again, I have determined my “actual” costs and the averages I use are pretty spot on.)
- 2.25 hours an average total time spent which includes, confirming appt & reviewing instructions, printing/prepping docs, travel time to/from/to FedEx, signing/notarizing docs, scan back
- Costs that people usually do not take into consideration because it’s part of their household BUT they are costs of running a business (home office expenses - internet, electric, computer, phone, supplies, etc.) Remember every business has similar expenses
So here we go…let’s look at average total for this signing:
$45 print costs
$19.60 mileage rate (So this number is based on IRS mileage rate. I use this number as a catch all to give me an estimate of my actual costs (gas, toll, %of annual maintenance, %of insurance and a % of home office costs, %of supplies, etc. Since I know my % for every business expenses, I already know this number is pretty close to my actual costs. For example my actual costs for this signing would be around $21)
It will cost me $64.60 for a 150 page refinance order. With no issues, no traffic, no reprints, no problems
If I took a $75 signing fee I would net $10.40
I would net roughly $4.62 per hour for a signing that took up 2.25 hours of my time.
$95 I would net $30.40 or $13.51 per hour
$125 I would net $60.40 or $26.84 per hour
$150 I would net $85.40 or $37.96 per hour
So when I advocate for SAs and fees I am not just coming up with number off the top of my head. I have done the math for myself personally."
SOURCE: Signing Agent Fee is Just Not a Notary Fee - #38 by anon78047977
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I tried that approach and it was about 55% obtained someone else and about 45% increased the amount. So it can work.
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One item of note I did not see in cNsa5’s breakdown … federal and state income tax. But I admit I skimmed it quickly
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