KUDOS. However, nowhere in the law or the administrative code do the words “ask, listen, and acknowledge response as a single notarial act” appear. And nowhere does it spell out that you can charge a fee for employing each of those skills. The requestor was not asking for a definition of terms; she wanted to know whether it was a single notarial act at a fee of $10 or a fee of $20 since there were two signers, though a single notary statement. Asked and answered! At this point this exercise is little more than churning butter. But, thanks for your input/insights.
1 Like
Wowie, I think everybody on this site thinks they are a lawyer or paralegal. Such authorities on all states’ notary rules and regulations. My goodness. Whilst I truly believe the input is all well intended, there is so much conflicting information that I wouldn’t trust any of it. . . no offense to those who are offering it.
Here’s a thought. . . Why not call or email your Secretary of State Office (or equivalent) and pose the question to them? In this way, you can ask for a reliable answer in writing and be protected from making a costly mistake.
I think this forum is great for sharing productivity ideas, where to get equipment, for telling stories, sharing a few laughs even. But it becomes dangerous territory when advice is given on very state-specific, legally-driven “how-to” stuff.
A word to the wise. . . Read your state’s guidance and follow it closely. Still not sure? Given 'em a call.
Or, don’t. Why listen to me?
6 Likes
1m
@Bobby-CA you’re absolutely right - OP should call the state authority for clarity -
But please realize it’s not that difficult for some of us to find the governing statute and quote it with relative surety. I will say Washington’s verbiage is vague
Washington’s language is a bit vague. That’s EXACTLY the point! Rather than post an [out-of-context] excerpted quote from some state guidance, maybe it’s best to reference the code section (or law, or whatever) by number and let the person look it up, interpret it as they will and decide for themselves what action to take. I sometimes think that some folks are a bit too eager to help out and a few even feel, to me (anyway), like they are imposing their researched answer and then often, having to defend it in lengthy missives.
I have NO stake in the matter, actually. I write on this site when things are slow and I feel I can maybe bring a little equanimity to the occasional contested discussion. Folks will no doubt let me know when my input has worn out its welcome. 
1 Like
I’ll bet the reason it’s vague is the people who wrote the laws, regulations, and notary manual never actually charged a fee for a notarization, and never really thought about what’s involved.
I watched an online hearing for changes that are in the VT legislature for the notary law. Some of the lawmakers asking questions didn’t even realize notaries were allowed to charge fees. One of the lawyers explaining the new law to them referred to us as “notary republics”. Another lawyer explaining the new law admitted he’d never, in his entire legal career, looked at notarization law until the day before he testified.
Notary Republics, eh? Well, at least he didn’t refer to us as “Notes” as some on this site do. Notes indeed. **
1 Like
Well now, I guess it’ a darned good thing I don’t have one of those CPA’s.
1 Like
Hello, thank you all for your responses. According to the NNA for Washington, this is what they answered with.
The fee is $10.00 per Notarial act. This is based on how many names are entered into one acknowledgement or jurat. So, for example, if you entered the names of a couple in an acknowledgement, then it would be $10 for each person. Even though it is one acknowledgement, two Notarial acts were performed on that one acknowledgement form.
1 Like
I wanted to follow up with you. Looks like you are right here. This is the response from the NNA:
“The fee is $10.00 per Notarial act. This is based on how many names are entered into one acknowledgement or jurat. So, for example, if you entered the names of a couple in an acknowledgement, then it would be $10 for each person. Even though it is one acknowledgement, two Notarial acts were performed on that one acknowledgement form.”
In a “nut shell” some docs come with the signer(s) names preprinted in the certificate language, and some come with a blank for you to write the names of the signer(s) in. 2 signatures on the doc, then two names should be pre printed, or you have to write both names into the certificate. In either case, one act. In rare cases, I had two signatures to acknowledge on a single doc, but only one name was pre-filled in the certificate. I attach a separate certificate for the other signer who was missing from the original certificate, and charge accordingly. Very “state specific” stuff here, but what I addressed I would imagine would be common practice, as “clerical errors” can prevent you from getting properly compensated if we don’t catch such things like this, especially when others want to “play notary” and fill out some of our portion of what they are paying us to do. I don’t recommend “assuming” shared liability in these cases if something turns out “off” in such a case. Read/Review the doc in it’s entirety and protect yourself!
Thank you, this is what the NNA stated for me:
“The fee is $10.00 per Notarial act. This is based on how many names are entered into one acknowledgement or jurat. So, for example, if you entered the names of a couple in an acknowledgement, then it would be $10 for each person. Even though it is one acknowledgement, two Notarial acts were performed on that one acknowledgement form.“
Each State is different. With this in mind always follow your State’s Notary Laws. A few years ago UPS stores were over charging for Notarizations. The details are found here: UPS Store Overcharges For Notary Services, Class Suit Claims | New Jersey Law Journal
I would still reach out to your state to verify because I spoke to the NNA too and the information they gave me on something was not correct according to my state.
1 Like
Aww! Interesting! I will then, thats not good.
I am in full agreement with @donaldsonnp, the NNA is a great resource for general notary information about practices. But regulations and guidelines are state specific. You will get correct, state specific information from your DOL, SOS and state codes set by your state legislature.
1 Like
Thank You for getting clarity reporting back. Oklahoma’s states per act as well and not per stamp. Good thing I’ve been charging correctly for gnw work.
1 Like
A little late but I am in Washington State. They are super nice people, call the Department of Licensing office. 360-664-1550 or notaries@dol.wa.gov
I have asked this question multiple times and the NNA is NO help.
and from the handbook:
WAC 308-30-190
Journal of notarial acts required.
(1) A notary public shall record each notarial act in a journal at the time of notarization in compliance with RCW 42.45.180 and these rules.
As stated above, there are 3 parts to the notarial act, one being recording the act. You have a journal entry for each person. That means it is 2 different acts.
Each person is acknowledging or swearing to. 2 people = 2 notarial acts.
If you are doing loan packages for a set fee, go back and recount for each person. You can deduct to the max you were paid.
1 Like
To acknowledge a signature or make a verification on oath or affirmation, it is mandatory that the signer speak. The obvious implication is that the notary must listen. (Although not spelled out in the law, I presume that a person with a hearing or speech problem could use an equivalent method, such as American Sign Language or writing on a pad of paper.)
We see the following in the definitions section of the Washington Revised Uniform Law on Notarial Acts. The same language can be found in Oklahoma and Vermont law, with different section numbers.
(1) “Acknowledgment” means a declaration by an individual in the presence of a notarial officer stating that the individual has signed a record of the individual’s free will for the purpose stated in the record and, if the record is signed in a representative capacity, the individual also declares that he or she signed the record with proper authority and signed it as the act of the individual or entity identified in the record…[emphasis added]
(18) “Verification on oath or affirmation” means a declaration, made by an individual on oath or affirmation before a notarial officer, that a statement in a record is true. [emphasis added]
The law does not define the words “declaration” or “declares”. So the word means what it means in everyday English. In everyday English people can declare by writing or speaking. We know from experience that when we ask people if the signature on a document is theirs, or if they signed it for the purpose in the document, they don’t write “yes” on a piece of paper, they say “yes”. We know from experience that when we ask signers if they swear the information in a document is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, they don’t write “I do” on a piece of paper, they say “I do”.
So it is through the words “declaration” and “declares” in the law that the need for the signer to speak and the notary to listen is made mandatory.
In Georgia, we charge per notarial stamp.
2 Likes
What about 3rd party witnesses, as in a POA? Do you charge for their signatures as well? They are not a party to the transaction per se, but they are signatories in and witnesses to the transaction. Some notary acknowledgements/jurats include the witness name(s) as well as the affiant name(s), some do not. I always include the witness identity in my journal as well and identify them as such in the additional information section. But, do they become a part of your payment calculation? Just wondering.