Does anyone know why we are not compensated based on the number of notarizations we perform during loan closings, but rather paid for the entire package as a whole?
I recently started using Notary Gadget, and it tracks the number of notarizations per signing. For instance, I am handling a REFI that has 27 notarial acts which would amount to $270 (Texas notary fees are $10 per). However, Title companies pay these amounts and more to Signing Services which only compensate notaries $75-95 (if you’re lucky) for a REFI closing. The math ain’t mathing!
We cannot become Loan Signing Agents without first being notaries - and that’s the key! So why then aren’t we being paid according to the # of documents we notarize? Being the notary at the closing is very well the most important person (IMO) in the room (and SSs knows this)! Thus, again, why are we not paid per notarization? Is it stipulated somewhere that individual notarial acts within a loan closing package are not considered, and the fee is determined by the type of loan (i.e., purchase, sellers, REFI, HELOC, etc.)?
We get paid by package and that’s just the way it is. I don’t think it’s a mystery. Knowing what fees your region will bear has a great deal to do with what fees you can charge. IMO
You may have already seen this thread I created as a Guideline for developing a Schedule of Fees:
It’s also a good idea to create a List of Fees that are divided by County. This can be immensely helpful in providing a prompt response to the hair-trigger notifications!
Yes, I understand it’s my perspective. But I just wanted to know why is the setup the way that it is. Why couldn’t we charge by the number of notarizations we do in each loan package rather than being paid for the package itself.
Where did this all start? I was just trying to figure out is there something in writing that this is the case or is it just a accepted practice that no one question why the fee is what it is. This just only propelled us to set fees and have those fees ignored by most SSs. But I was just trying to figure out where did this all stemmed from and why is it a accepted practice. If we don’t ever question a practice, then we would just fall into the mindset of “it is what it is, just accepted!”
My mentor has been a mobile signing agent for 16 years. In that time, fees are not based on the number of notarizations in a package. Folks seem to want to make what we do worth huge fees. Fees will always be based on what the market will bear. It’s not defeatist to be realistic.
When I first started performing loan signings, I had the same question. I asked a few companies this question, their explanation was by accepting their fee, we can potentially receive more assignments. It’s the norm in this business. Understand companies have a pricing (fee) model. Title companies, lenders, and signing services overall goal is profit optimization. So if the company can negoiate a bundle fee rate model verus a fee per notarial stamp, they are able to increase their profits margins. They sold loan signing agents on this concept over the years and so they can continue doing business in such a manner. We have the right to reject these companies fees and counter offer. But we do not have any leverage to make things change. It’s really simple to understand, as long as there’s an oversupply of loan signing agents that are willing to accept these types of practices from the hiring companies. Things will never change. For things to change, we have to make a change. On the other hand, you may want to talk with your tax advisor to see if you can deduct the notarial acts that you are not compensated for performing.
You lost me here. Are you suggesting that a notary keep count of how many notarizations there are in a packet? Then subtract the fee they are being paid from the amount they would otherwise have been paid on a per notarization basis? Then keep track of this total for all the notarizations done in a year for contracted services and provide that total as an anticipated loss of income? How would this work exactly?
Well if that’s the case, that’s shady! Why didn’t some notary long ago when this unreasonable, one-sided madness started say something? This model benefits title companies, lenders, and signing services! This business model does not benefit the notary, lest we forget, is the most important person at the closing! Without the notary, there will be no notarizations performed! When did we lose the leverage?
It has should have been stopped from day one when this proposed business model came out! And not have it shoved down our throat and be told to take it or lump it! It’s going to be hard to unring this bell, especially when there is an over abundance of notaries accepting this insane practice. I should have known that it didn’t come from the Secretary of State office!
I’m coming of the mine closer and closer that this loan signing game may not be for me. I’m doing it for supplemental income, but by my principles - it’s a hard pill to swallow!
The Texas Secretary of State office says that notaries are to charge $10 per notarization.
It makes no stipulation that if the notary is also a Signing Agent, that we are to accept our notorial fees in a bundle package that benefits title companies, signing services, and lenders. We are first notaries who decided to be trained and certified to become signing agents and therefore our fee for each notarization we perform should not have been bundled into a loan package that benefits only the above mentioned companies!
And because signing agents have accepted this one-sided business model, we fight to get our fees increased when all the while, it should never gotten to that point in the first place! If a refi package has 27 notarial acts, the fee should be $270 for a Texas notary. If a seller’s package has 15 notarial acts, the fee should be $150, etc.
I see it all the time on this forum that we are to charge what we are worth, don’t leave the house if you’re going to operate in a deficit, counter offer fees, etc… So why are we not making a more demand on being paid per notarial act?!
And then we wonder why SSs takes advantage of notaries! It is because they can and they will continue as long as notaries accept bundled fees instead of charging per notarization! And I know people are looking to make money, but sometimes we have to stop and ask ourselves - are we being taken advantage of? And the answer is a resounding, “yes we are!”
Please keep in mind, I am not a tax attorney, tax advisor, or giving tax advice. What I am saying, it is a discussion to have with your tax person, that’s why Notary Gadget is tracking the number of your notarial acts performed for tax purposes. Secondly, just because the masses are doing business a certain way, doesn’t mean you have follow the masses. You may not agree with my next statement, but we are not the most important person at the closing. We are just one of the professionals that are getting a “slice of the pie”, truth be told, we are getting the smallest “slice of the pie”. Please understand we are an concierge service offered by the lender for the convenience to the borrower. Lenders can perform the closing inhouse and not use LSAs. There’s nothing “shady” being part of our profession. Being a Notary Public/LSA is a great way to build a profitable business and profession to serve the public. When I got into this business, I am a licensed insurance agent. I got my Notary Public commission just to focused on performing loan signings assignments. Over the years my business evolved and expanded. I can tell you that your notary commission is a very valuable asset. Do not get hung up with “fees” and how things are done. There’s so much more opportunity, if you ever wish to talk. Please free feel to contact me.
The shady that I’m talking about is that if the title companies and the lenders and the signing services know that by bundling the notarial fees, they wouldn’t have to pay as much and it is they who take the lion’s share for their profit margins. An easy solution is to come out of this loan signing game. Is it really an industry or is it a game? I’m not so hung up about it because this happens all the time in business - you have the takers and you have receivers. I just wanted to know where was this stipulated that it must be a bundled fee per package rather than per notarization.
Yes, I log in the number of notarizations for every single closing that I do. I use Notary Gadget by the way, so it’s easy to enter this number. We can deduct notarizations when it comes to filing taxes, so this is super important since most of us are 1099 “employees.”
That is how I kept my books…so if fee for # of notarizations was more than fee paid, basically entire fee is exempt from SE tax. I always separated them out
Total fee/Fee for notarizations. Example … Fee $150 … fee for 10 notarizations $100 … Balance $50
You can charge $10 per notarization doing general notary work. Loan Signing Agent fees work differently. People want to get caught up in the idea they’re screwed every step of the way and honestly they’re in the wrong business for thinking like that.
csmallsnotry, it’s really very simple. You have to weed out the companies that are not willing to negoiate the fees. Find companies that are more fairer and willing negotiate fees to do business. I would recommend to you, find ways to capitalize on the loan signings that you perform to generate more revenue with your notary commission. I have coached a few colleagues towards taking a different approach to their business, now they have the opportunity to double their income earnings.
It’s the characters that are questionable. There is nothing wrong with asking a question about the origin of a thing. If it’s not making sense, there’s nothing wrong in trying to figure out how to make it make sense. I’m getting it now! Trust and believe, I’m getting it now!
