Has anyone ever heard of a loan closing performed and the borrowers house by a lawyer and with out a Notary

I am a new signing agent and I had my own loan refinancing done last friday. The man gave me a card which stated he was a lawyer and was contracted to do the signing. He had the documents and he mentioned he had preformed two signing before me and had two to perform after he completed my signing. The thing that was strange to me is that none of the documents I sign did he notarize. It made me nervous. During my trainging I never heard that a lawyer could do a signing without a Notary present. Does anyone have a comment on this. I am very nervous.

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Where are you located?

Welcome to Notary Cafe!

In Florida, as well as other states, an Attorney can act as a Notary Public and Notarize documents. So, on the notarial certificate, instead of “{name}, Notary Public” you might see, “{name}, Attorney at law” etc. When I closed on my first house, the Atty doing my case (an attorney is necessary in NJ), Notarized most of the doc package. But I went to the seller’s office anyway and singed the remainder of the docs, personally, even though my lawyer offered to do it for me by proxy…

There are others in FL who can do notarial acts as well. (LEOs in some cases).

I never heard of this. I know about LEOs but not attorneys. I asked about OP’s location because I know CT attorneys can sign as Commissioner of the Superior Court

In FL, they are called “Civil-Law Notaries.” See p. 5 of the NNA Florida Notary Primer. Or see FS 118.10

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So again, back to the OP - Mr. Mondoon, where are you located?

In many, but not all states, attorneys are automatically given the right to notarize. Or they can be both an attorney AND a commissioned notary. There are quite a few lawyers that also are ‘signing agents’. And, while doing it ‘right’ does mean that the notary should complete the notarization immediately after you sign a document, in reality, some complete it later.

For example, as a r. e. broker who attended thousands of closing at a Title Co., I never once saw anyone ‘complete the notarization’ at the table during the closing. Nope…they did it later and often ‘the notary who completed the Cert’ was NOT present when the person signed.

Unfortunately, it is a common practice. I’m not saying it’s right…just ‘common’.

It’s not unusual for Attorneys to also be Notaries. What you’ve described is not often seen, it is possible.

I knew a couple who were both NSAs. One would head out with several closings in hand to meet with clients and return to the office where the other spouse would perform the notarizations. Spouse #1 would head out with the next batch…wash, rinse, repeat. Since the engagements were contracted via a signing service, the Title Company never knew who was actually did the Notarizations, I don’t really think the TC or Lender cared. Keep in mind the notarizing spouse use the other’s name, stamp, and signature. They were clearing 12-15 closings per day.

In attorney states such as Georgia, only attorneys can perform loan signings. Obviously, they receive higher compensation, and a busy attorney can earn significant income.

if you’re not in a Attorney only state, attorneys can still do loan signings.

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Which would be totally illegal in Florida.

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Some companies contract attorneys for signings in a state that requires an attorney’s presence. However, they must notarize at the table. No excuses.

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We have to remember where the notarization takes place is highly dependent on State’s Laws. This often adds confusion to the advice we give.

You didn’t notice when he going through the docs which ones needed to be notarized, ie the DOT. He did sign and stamp it?

The documents in question were written/drawn directly by the law firm and did not contain generic notarial language (i.e. "so and so, Notary Public, my commission expires, blah blah blah). All you saw were the basic “State of _____________ County of ____________ Sworn and subscribed before me________, etc. by: ____________________ Attorney at Law.:” And that’s all they said. Apparently, those are acceptable in New Jersey.

No “Notarizations” were required by a Notary Public. My Attorney did it all.

This is actually illegal in most, it not all states. But it happens. Just like notaries who backdate, don’t personally meet with the signer, etc. But you know this :slight_smile:

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Because attorneys in New Jersey can notarize documents - their status as attorneys affords them the same standing and authority as a Notary Public. And that’s a short-form jurat, which is also allowed in many states, not just NJ

@dawnsnotary yes, I know. Many states don’t require the notarizations be performed at time of signing in front of signers - Florida does.

Here’s a thought as to why the quoted practice is wrong and dangerous: there was a Georgia attorney who did mobile closings after hours. He was killed in an accident one evening, I believe on his way home. From a signing? Not sure - but if he was, if those docs were not notarized, then what?? You have the fees incurred for a resign - not to mention the inconvenience to the signers but, if a RE transaction, the need to recalculate the numbers on the CD, the dates on the RTC (if applicable) - OR you could end up with signers who say “I never signed that”. What you have, bottom line, is a mess.

IMO, always safest and best practice to notarize right then and there.

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Interesting, as I thought it was a requirement in all states. I always sign and stamp at the table - a: it is required and b: for a situation as you described.

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I really wish OP would come back and answer some of our questions…these hit and run posters set me crazy.

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