What a great topic that clearly outlines some very important information and effectively demonstrates the variations in how each of us, as loan signing agents, carry out our respective duties and responsibilities. It is precisely these types of often-confusing requirements, coupled with the potential for a lack of comprehensive understanding regarding all the intricate financial regulations and ever-evolving government acts, that we, as loan signing agents, must remain consistently vigilant about and meticulously adhere to in order to maintain professionalism and avoid potential issues. There are so many opportunities in this business for us to step onto “landmines”, that we learn to navigate and avoid, which each can us lead to face some type of fines, penalties, or even criminal actions.
This has been my understanding and practice as well. I always insist that the signer sign all three copies with the date of the signing. If the applicants cancel, they must return the cancellation request (two copies per signer) and they should show both dates.
Most of the time for me all rtc’s have to be signed and returned
Sometimes I see six copies of the CD and three copies of the 1003. What do they do with all of these copies? Sure adds to the page count.
And those packages include instructions that say don’t remove anything. I have no idea what they do with all that but I send it all back. They go different places I suppose. I’m starting to send confirming emails about how many RTC have to be returned. I’ve only been told all of them three times in six years. I’ll just ask.
@earl226 You shouldn’t have deleted your post, Earl - it was right on point
In 10 years of doing this work, I’m aware of only two borrowers who have actually used their RTC to cancel after the fact from signings that I’ve done. Both of them told me during the signing that they were going to do it because interest rates had just gone down, and they wanted the lower rate.
Do you actually complete a signing if they say I m going to cancel? Not sure I would since canceled transactions can get paid at 0 by some SS.
I will do it however I am told by the signing service or lender. However, during my 40+ years in the title business I was never instructed by a lender to have the borrower sign their copies of the RTC. When the borrower signs and dates the acknowledgement of receipt of a copy of the RTC that is the lenders proof of when the borrower received it.
One comment in this thread said if the borrower didn’t have a copy which they had signed and dated at the signing they would win (defeat) a foreclosure every time. I would sincerely be interested to know about an instance of that happening.
I always have the borrowers sign all three copies and send them back with the documents. Their two, actually 3, copies are in with their other copies.
I would never take it upon myself to cancel a signing. If they are willing to sign the documents, who am I to say no? I want my full fee for that signing, for which I did my job. They just told me their intentions. I’m not sure of the mechanics in terms of the reasons behind their approach, but it sounds like they would have to start over with a new loan application to obtain the lower rates. I’m just guessing on that.
I am not sure I would continue the signing, not only the pay but it would be a waste of time to continue the signing for me and the signers . I would accept their RTC on the spot if they so wanted. I of course would call the SS to inform them of the situation but that wouldn’t force me to continue the signing if the intent was to cancel .
Agreed. What would be the point in continuing on?
(I’m always amazed when someone comes up with a reason for these kinds of things like moving forward with the signing. Stuff I NEVER would have thought of that makes sense. I’m curious as to what other notaries think about my “continuing on” comment. Am I overlooking something, gang?)
Once I have completed my contract and turned in the paperwork, I have no investment in whether the signers cancel the loan or not. I am still entitled to my fee. Nowhere in our order instructions does it indicate that we guarantee the lender a successful outcome. If a signer informs me that they are going to exercise their 3 day right to cancel (for whatever reason), I see it as an issue between them and the lender. I will ask them if they would like to cancel at the signing table and we can call title at that time. And, even if they decide it is what they would like to do, the agency still owes me my full fee.
If they tell me they’re going to cancel…but have not indicated they are not going to sign…it’s not my job to accept the cancellation. Proceed, get signed, return with note of conversation. Would also have signers call their loan officer or agent to advise and to get guidance. I’m not paid enough to get involved in loan cancellations
It really is Lender specific. The three copies returned requirement so far has only been for a handful of Lenders. I have my signers sign every single copy regardless of they being returned or left with them. In an earlier post I mentioned I print backup copies in the Borrower set even though normally, they are getting the two extra RTCs from the Bank set. If, and it is rare, a Borrower does decide to cancel, there should be two signatures on the form, the original they signed with the notary and again when sending in the cancellation.
I have always left two signed copies with the borrower(s) and returned one signed copy to title. I intentionally pull all RTC forms in the borrower(s) package because I was told once I should not leave any unsigned copies with them. After they sign all three copies, I keep the one with the clearest date (smile) for title and insert their two copies in the package I am going to leave with them.
My biggest complaint is that some title companies only include two copies and I have to make sure I remember to print a third copy.
In a situation where you’re only going to get paid 50% of your fee if the signing isn’t completed, why would you encourage them not to sign? If it’s their decision, that’s one thing. In fact, if they knew ahead of time that they weren’t going to end up going through with the loan, why would they even have you go out there to do the signing at all? The point is that the decision for them to continue with the signing or abort it should be THEIR decision entirely. You should not try to influence it one way or the other.
I agree with your analysis. I’m amazed how many different ways the signing agents are handling the RTC. This brings up a related point I’ve intended to post for a while. I would like to see some sort of “standard checklist” that all of the title companies can include in their packages. I hate having to search through all of the various instructions to discover what this particular title company wants from me.
@kromedome42303 , Having dedicated the past ten years of my professional life to this industry, my observations and firsthand experiences have repeatedly reinforced the undeniable absence of any industry-wide standardization. It’s a consistent reality that each title company and lender operates with its own unique methodology when it comes to compiling loan packages. These differences are not limited to the assembly process; they also encompass the specific expectations each entity has for the documents. This is where the true value of understanding your clientele becomes paramount. One particular client might mandate a meticulous level of documentation, requiring signatures and initials on every single page, while another might have entirely different, less stringent requirements. This principle extends to the sheer volume of paperwork involved as well, impacting both the number of pages that need to be printed and even whether duplicate sets of loan documents are necessary. For instance, lenders like Quicken Loans frequently present smaller loan packages, often needing only a single print run. Conversely, companies like PennyMac can present exceptionally large loan packages, sometimes exceeding a total of 400 pages when two complete sets are required, demonstrating the wide range of printing demands in this field.
And it’s such a simple concept…there should be no variation across the board - SS/TC want “X” number signed and returned - that’s what they want that’s what they get. SAs need only make sure they are leaving sufficient copies with the signers so each person with an interest in the property has two copies.
There is nothing in the federal regulation that says they have to be signed so, to err on the side of caution here, I would have them sign their copies. Picture this…should they decide to exercise their right to cancel and sign the cancellation and send it in, it’s probably a good thing that their signature confirming two copies were received shows up.
My $.02 FWIW