Service Link Fees

Signing Service 411
63

@vizionzmobilenotary Excellent work negotiating.

=> Regarding fees each business owner decides to charge, once you go low it’s very difficult for that client to approve a requested increase in baseline fees.

Plus, the end result is lower fees for all because of the pricing ‘race to the bottom’ to gain some experience.

As has been mentioned many times, starting a business within this business sector is a MARATHON, not a sprint.

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Also, there is an excellent specific cost breakdown by one business owner for services within her [ @anon78047977 ] region & for her overhead:

"Ok for a seasoned already in business Signing Agent (meaning no start up costs to factor in, just on going costs)

Average Refinance

  • 150 pages (300 when having to print 2 copies)
  • 35 miles average miles to signing/from signing/to FedEx drop
  • Print cost average .15 per page (Laser printer, standard paper. Note this is also the cost at Staples, FedEx Office in the area BUT I have actually calculated my real costs by dividing the number of pages I get from a toner kit, my drum kit, cost of paper etc. but I use this average of .15 because there are Notaries around who actually use outside printing)
  • IRS mileage .56 per mile (you can use actual costs of gas, insurance, plus maintenance costs. I will use the IRS rate because it’s a good average and I also have Tolls I have to pay which I will not add in this example. Also later I kind of use this amount as a “catch all” for other expenses. Again, I have determined my “actual” costs and the averages I use are pretty spot on.)
  • 2.25 hours an average total time spent which includes, confirming appt & reviewing instructions, printing/prepping docs, travel time to/from/to FedEx, signing/notarizing docs, scan back
  • Costs that people usually do not take into consideration because it’s part of their household BUT they are costs of running a business (home office expenses - internet, electric, computer, phone, supplies, etc.) Remember every business has similar expenses

So here we go…let’s look at average total for this signing:
$45 print costs
$19.60 mileage rate (So this number is based on IRS mileage rate. I use this number as a catch all to give me an estimate of my actual costs (gas, toll, %of annual maintenance, %of insurance and a % of home office costs, %of supplies, etc. Since I know my % for every business expenses, I already know this number is pretty close to my actual costs. For example my actual costs for this signing would be around $21)

It will cost me $64.60 for a 150 page refinance order. With no issues, no traffic, no reprints, no problems

If I took a $75 signing fee I would net $10.40
I would net roughly $4.62 per hour for a signing that took up 2.25 hours of my time.

$95 I would net $30.40 or $13.51 per hour
$125 I would net $60.40 or $26.84 per hour
$150 I would net $85.40 or $37.96 per hour

So when I advocate for SAs and fees I am not just coming up with number off the top of my head. I have done the math for myself personally."

SOURCE: Signing Agent Fee is Just Not a Notary Fee - #38 by notarybe

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64

@seattlecondospecialist

OOPS!

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By any chance have you requested and received authorization to make copies of the Borrowers document packages at a commercial business?

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FIRST OOPS: By emailing a borrower’s loan document package to Office Depot and/or FedEx, QuikPrint, etc. it exposes their non-public private identifying information [NPII] to great risk.

This is the reason nearly all lenders & title/escrow companies [T/ECs] adamantly insist that THEIR OFFICE chooses and takes action regarding emailing documents to the Borrowers.

SECOND OOPS: Most commercial copying equipment contains memory chips that retain images of all documents copied. This is also exposing their NPII to great risk.

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65

Truth! It doesn’t matter if you are a newbie or not. It doesn’t matter! Newbies think they have to take the low ball offers to get established. This will not help newbies. Guess what? After you have worked for almost nothing for a long time…there will be new newbies who are told the same scam. It is a never ending circle. It’s a scam to say once you have experience they will pay more. They will not because there will always be some newbies working for next to nothing.

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66

Absolutely true. Well stated! @glenntabor

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67

Agree, agree, agree… experience explains / newbs don’t heed. Gets old.

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68

Yes, it does get old . . . maybe they don’t realize we are providing this wisdom without compensation . . .

When we were learning, no one handed us answers (unless we paid a Mentor for their insights). We each had to grind it out, make mistakes, learn, correct, and implement a plan of action to improve the services we provide via our businesses 1 at a time.

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69

Thank You for your detailed breakdown! Very helpful!

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70

NOTE: The detailed pricing data provided (above) is an excerpt from the post created by notarybe. Source cited at the end of the post above.

71

Same thing happened to me! I was getting steady work from them for $150 then I took sometime off, when I got back they wanted me to sign up for auto assignments for $75 per package. I said no so they stopped calling me :frowning:

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72

Again my post was just giving perspective in what some of the newbies are facing. It does not mean I agree with it or accept it to be the handbook of which we should follow. It is just easier to say how people should conduct their business when you do not know their circumstances or finances. All newbies will not be in the position to turn down offers because they are lesser amounts than what we deserve. You can generally give advice and advocate for the appropriate pay; I just don’t think anyone is at liberty to make some of the new comers feel guilty for doing what they need to survive. I market myself and spend hours trying to figure out how I can better myself and expand my reach. I am not afraid of putting myself out there and going for the Directs, nor am I afraid to ask for the fee I deserve,. I just understand everyone starting out will not have that same mindset. I just was sharing a perspective that seems like it’s missed because of the most of the Vets are so far detached from that beginning process and responds from their level of expertise. I have a mentor that helps guide me through my journey but I also have other things set in place that so many others may not have and it makes a huge difference. I will graciously bow out of this topic because I am not afraid of demanding what I deserve.

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73

Attagirl!…… :+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:

74

Good for you. :clap::+1::clap::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1::+1:

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75

@JANGELNOTARY

Please don’t paint ALL experienced certified notary signing agents [CNSAs] with the same broad-brush stroke based on faulty assumptions . . .

There are several experienced CNSAs (with a decade or more of tenure) who choose to donate their time, efforts, and energy to contributing daily to the forum because they remember quite well the overwhelming growing pains & burn of launching their business in this competitive business sector.

It’s quite a shock to feel a "bite on the hand that is feeding’ expertise to those seeking trustworthy insights for free. :astonished:

Your post gives many of us cause for pause as to why we continue endeavoring to assist . . .

Wishing you the Best :sparkles::tulip:

76

Vets are so far detached from that beginning process …ha! We get the same stupid lowball offers that newbs do. Difference is we always say no and N E G O T I A T E

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77

@Arichter Confirming accuracy with your experience, position, & response. Identical experience here. Yes, regularly receive the “same stupid lowball offers that newbs do. Difference is we always say no and N E G O T I A T E”

78

I can hear and I share your frustration. I’ve been doing this for 9 years, so I guess I’m one of the vets on the forum. New notaries should not feel guilty, though guilt is a choice. Understanding works in both directions. What the vets are trying to tell the ”newbies” about fees is that just grabbing the money at any rate is not a good business strategy. It’s like co-signing on a loan. It has the effect of bringing down the credit score of the person with the “good credit”, but not bringing up the credit score of the person for whom you are co-signing. That’s what has happened here with new notaries accepting lower fees!
We all remember too well starting out, which is why we share out experiences with you. There is a thread that runs through the new notary experiences that amounts to what I would call “throwing good money after bad”. Many of you have paid money to learn the notary business, while what you need to know is really quite intuitive and doesn’t require paid training. But, if you feel that works for you, it works. It’s going to take you a minute to make up the investment you’ve made for training and new equipment and supplies. Much longer if you are doing it a job at a time for $75 or less! Also consider — we live in the age of COVID, if you are taking treats to a title office as a way of introducing yourself, chances are no one is eating those treats. Save your money. A handwritten note of thanks following a completed assignment is nice, but it most likely will not be seen by the person who makes the decision about assignments and membership. Nothing speaks louder for recognition than quality work and confidence. Conferences that cyou may spend hundreds to attend — how long does it take you to recoup that investment. All of the speakers at those conferences have blog spaces. You can probably get the information for free just by visiting their websites, where they regularly post tips and information. Just look at the list of proposed speakers at any upcoming conference. Then do a search for those speaker sites and start reading. Don’t forget to look for their archived posts and look for any articles they have written for notary organizations. And a lot of training videos from past conferences are also on YouTube, complete with slides. Save your money.
And, give yourself time to learn. But, learn is the operative word here. (I taught AA college level for a few years. I had the biggest shock one year when a student approached me and said, “stop trying to educate me and just tell me what I need to know for the test”.). It appears that many new notaries who visit the forum just want to be told what to do to get the “big bucks”. When learning the business and turning out a good product is all it takes. Intuitive! And, stop taking low ball fees. It hurts all of us who have put in the time and energy to earn “good credit” in this industry. We remember all too well the lean years. But, even our lean years were worth more than $75, and we understood it.
Good luck to you. Now let’s each do what we need to do to bring down our frustration level.

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79

My post was not crucifying all Vets and it seems that my shared opinions offends others. My post was just to shed a perspective from some Newbies. You should not feel any bite of the Hand by my words. My original reply stated how much I have learned from months of just reading your threads but never responding. From a few of your responses back to me, it makes not want to respond to anymore threads. This is an open forum where people should be able to express themselves without every thought being disected. I appreciate all of the experienced CNSAs that share their testimony and take the time out to help others. It just does not mean I have to agree with every advice given. I never said what it is being said about taking the low ball offers is incorrect, I never said it doesn’t hurt other agents that are demanding higher fees. I simply said there are some of the newbies that might not be in the mindset to view their journey like that. If this is how the response will be when someone shares another side of the coin then you will see lesser newbies speak out. Thank you for response back but please read my posts again and see your reply wasn’t accurate to my experiences.

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80

Thank you! I read a lot of your posts on various topics and have taken a lot of your experience and information given in account to my own tailored path. I take notes and listen and apply what I can for my journey.

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81

Sis don’t spend your Sunday morning defending yourself! Stand on your opinion just like everyone else does! It’s not up to you for others to understand your position or thoughts! Blessings :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

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82

@jangelnotary vets tell you not to take low fees because once you put yourself at that level it’s difficult to change it/raise it later. Further, when all aspects of a signing are considered (and I mean ALL aspects - not just printing and signing) one would find that doing them for $65-$75 is not turning a profit at all - in fact, you’re paying the hiring party to do the job - yes it looks good when the check comes in - “yay I got the fee today” - but if that assignment cost you more than what you were paid, you’ve made nothing. You need to consider tangibles and intangibles.

Someone once broke down the fees here as a hypothetical example of what happens when taking low fees - and what it boils down to on an hourly rate. Now, if you’re happy making $5/hour, go for it and good for you. Self-employed professional business people are not happy with that rate of return.

JMO and said with all due respect to all

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