Reading all the comments and issues Signing Agents present on this website I keep asking why this profession has not formed an organization to protect the SA’s?
We as Signing Agents (more than Notaries) need to form an organization to protect us. We are the least paid in the group and when the market falls, they cut our fees before anyone else’s. We need set fees and regulations. This position was created in the early 2000’s when the first residential bubble happened. It has been 24-25 yrs now and this position is an established profession.
Today, if you go out at 9:00 PM to sign a customer, there is no extra pay. Scan backs, redrawn docs at last minute (no print fee) etc. I had a Signing Service tell me that they lowered the fees offered because there is an abundance of Signing Agents.
That makes no sense to me. This is the 3rd state I have been a Signing Agent in and it is/was a lower cost of living state at one time. Like gasoline they match our fees depending on the cost-of-living area it seems???
There should be set fees period! Refinance & Purchases are X amount, Sellers & HELOCs X amount etc. Appointment above and beyond standard office hours (before 8:00 am and after 6:00 pm), packages over standard size, scan backs (especially required withing 90 minutes of closing) etc. We are not just Notaries; we are Signing Agents that are tested and background screened EVERY year. Fidelity National Title is the mothership, and they require minimum of $100,000. E&O insurance. Our membership fees and equipment is far higher than just being a notary.
And if you want to get Nic-Picky, we are on the road traveling in sometimes dangerous weather and traffic conditions, the wear and tear on our vehicles and our time (which is never considered).
Why are there not regulations for our pay and standards?
Also, why are Signing Services allowed to have pay schedules up to 60 days out? My billing cycles are 30 days. Whether the Law allows it or not, we should never have to wait past 30days for a job asked to be performed right away?
Not to whine, but I was one of the pioneers in this field and have watched it grow and evolve into an actual profession. We are here to stay so why is this profession not protected and treated like the career it is?
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Everything that you have just outlined above, keep it in mind. Moreover, keep in mind that you are a business owner - not an employee. As a business owner, I set my own fees. After asking the pertinent questions, I quote my fee to the hiring entity. We can either agree, disagree and/or negotiate.
I’ve been a notary/signing agent since January 2006 and I have always conducted my business as set forth above. When a blast offer comes through, if it doesn’t jive with my business plan, I either counter-offer or delete.
How you operate your business is, of course, up to you --as it is for each of us. However, if you run it with an employee mentality, please don’t complain about hiring entities dictating their terms to you.
The Small Business Administration (SBA) has a program called SCORE. SCORE offers mentoring that will assist people is setting up a business, a business plan and mentoring in other facets of conducting a business. I would suggest anyone who hasn’t done so, perhaps contact SCORE in their area. 
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This is exactly right. We set our own fees and conditions under which we work. For instance I charge very little for local work $90. But someone out there is now accepting that local work at $85 so now the blasts are at $85. Instead of $90. What the notary at $85 doesn’t recognize is - there will be something else for that slot come up at $90 and by then I’ll charge $100. And I’ll get it.
But not everyone will hold the line so the original offers are falling to where newer notaries are accepting them because that’s how lower fees become standard. Someone is always accepting them.
I also think signing agents should recognize we’re still notary publics. It’s not like passing an open book exam to become a signing agent makes us something super duper superior to a notary public. Years of experience and error free work is what sets you apart in this industry. Focus on that to be successful with requesting higher fees.
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I agree. We are independent contractors subcontracted by Signing Services. I work smarter not harder and do all the above that you mentioned.
Unfortunately, many people have never had their own business and learn as they go.
And in all honesty the Signing Services get battered around by the Title companies, so we are not alone.
I still feel we should have set regs as the rest of the Lending and Title industries do.
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Personally, I’m not letting other people set standards I have to live or work by. It’s why I refuse to live in an HOA or entertain a union. But that’s just me.
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And that’s a smart thing for you to do.
(CA) Well, it’s finally come to this - regulation-unionization. After reading and writing on this forum for five years and watching the notary industry change before my (our?) very eyes, I’m left wondering how anyone can come to the conclusion that regulating [that is, unionizing] offers a solution to the real and perceived problems we face as notaries.
Among the issues that appear unresolvable are, as has been stated by LindaH-FL, the proliferation RON along with the widely and wildly variables of state laws that govern what we do. Moreover, the notary profession as we now know it will change dramatically in the next three (tumultuous) years ahead. Automation of the notarization process will supplant the work most of us do. Identification alone will become a problem as some individuals will elect to change gender, national origin, biological certainty and even race. The notary industry hasn’t even begun as far as I know, to grapple with this dopey-yet-real stuff that’s occurring now. And that, as an abstract, is just for starters.
Regulations and union leadership won’t realistically resolve these issues:
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standardization (or regulation) of fees
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means to handle violations of any laws, rules, regulations
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centralized training and continuing education
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regional issues (weather, terrain, transportation)
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fuel costs, non-payment of fees, slow pays, sub-standard work product
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uniformity among title/lender/escrow companies to conform to “regulatory” standards
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organized work stoppages
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union dues (paid to whom and for what?)
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inevitable politicization of the union (yeah, that WILL happen)
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representation for each “local”; shop steward elections, turnover
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infiltration by criminal organizations (yeah, that’ll happen, too)
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loss of notary independence (coercion to join the union)
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lack of ability to enforce anything
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benefits packages administered by who - a central authority of some sort?
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Getting lenders/escrow/title to agree on standardized practices between themselves, not to mention, the notaries they engage.
Need I go on? Look, notaries’ working conditions change with every assignment we accept so there’s no easy or simple way to improve on that. We can’t strike for better wages. We can’t complain about our working hours.
There are over 400,000 notaries in the USA I’m told. No three of them can agree on almost anything if what I’ve read on this forum is any indicator. Who in the world is gonna pull all those folks together, get 'em to agree on anything and then represent them to - who?
I welcome your constructive feedback. 
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Well Bobby
Are the Lenders and Title companies unionized?
When I did escrow the Dept of Corporations oversaw them and would do random sweeps to make sure they were on the up and up.
The NNA initially posted suggested base fees for all Notary/Signing Agents to try and hold to for ALL Agents. They were forced to remove it because that was not allowed.
Although as small businesses/independent contractors we can set our own rules and rates, but it is usually overridden by their own.
So since day 1 we’ve been on our own at the mercy of the “Organ Grinders” who Krank their organs and make us dance.
I don’t play that game and stand my ground, but it seems to be an injustice to many agents force to dance to their music.
Don’t know if a union is necessary, but even auto mechanics and plumbers have a base to grow from .
I will be stepping down soon so it’s not going to affect me. I think it’s a shame that the spaghetti thrown against the wall 25 yrs ago is still stuck there today
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I don’t disagree with your views on the problems we endure in our end of the industry. Unfortunately, the solutions are unworkable and too costly and contentious to implement, so we are indeed, stuck. That’s why the lenders and title companies are not unionized. The regulations they must adhere to are administered by the Dept. of Corporations (or the like) and they have very few auditors/examiners to inspect and ensure their minions are following the rules. And so it goes. . .
Thank you for this information I would like some input for mentors as I would like to switch to RON. Please advise for best approach
Thanks
I know companies that routinely pay at least double what their offer price is if you’re not afraid to counteroffer. That doesn’t mean you’re going to get it every time but you will if nobody asks for less than you within 30 minutes or so.
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There is a new organization called the National Notary Coalition and its creator is Tye Brown. I do believe she is on this platform but she’s definitely on FB and YT. She is working hard to try and combat the very issues you’ve outlined. Check her out and see if it’s something of interest.
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It’s called competition. And we’re not about to join or form a union. That defeats the purpose of free markets and being self-employed. Remember, there’s always someone willing to take less than what you’re willing to take, but at what cost. ie. quality of work All you can do is set your own standards/pricing and that’s what you stick to. Don’t worry about what everybody else is doing.
The idea is to create a base. From there you can compete. This was the NNA’s idea when they posted suggested fees. No one is talking unionizing. This is by all rights a fairly new profession created 25 yrs ago. They threw spaghetti against the wall and ran with what stuck.
We have no protections nor credibility. If Acme Signing Service opens and contracts with the Title companies then takes their money and runs without paying their subcontractors (SAs) , then so what! This happened a lot in the beginning.
Those who want some structure are not talking dues and unions.
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I’ve been doing loan signings for over 24 years and I can count on one hand the vendors that didn’t pay me. In regards to pricing standards and what the minimum should be, you need to do that for yourself between you and your vendors. Since every signing agent has different experience levels, our value is higher or lower depending on your competence and accuracy. The signing and title companies keep track of us and our experience that’s why they keep calling us. And we know our rates go up, when the volume goes up and there’s less notaries doing the signings, It’s just plain supply and demand. And like now when it’s slower our rates go down because there’s more notaries than there is signing jobs to do.
All I can say is just do the best work that you can do, and always try to improve. And when the rates go down and the volume goes up, you’ll be in high demand.
I too have been doing this over 24 yrs and I have.
So let’s agree to disagree.
I counter almost every offer. There is always someone working on the way cheap though.
I do too. I set a base fee years ago.
I will flex for certain signing services who are new and on probation that do not get full fees themselves. If that even happens anymore.
If it’s true that there are over 400,000 notaries in the US and, let’s say half of them are mobile notaries, that’s 200,000 divided by, let’s say, 30 states (leaving out Montana, the Dakotas, Alaska and tiny states like Rhode Island, Wyoming and a few others for head-count purposes) that averages to 6600 mobile notaries per state. Calinuttia, Texas, Florida, New York, New Jersey and some other state bulk up those numbers (California has about 100,000) so there you have it. Competition erodes fees so that getting a fair price for the work being done in those states is near impossible. The ongoing clamor about fees is, to my mind, a regional issue. The other problems mobile notaries face are somewhat regional and vary so much as to be inconsequential to some people and dramatic to others.
The idea of creating a “base” accomplishes what? What does a “base” actually mean in this context? Who will establish the base? Who will enforce it’s provisions? What are the consequences if compliance with base requirements is not performed? How does a base establish fairer competition? What would the structure look like?
When ideas like a base are put forward, it would be best to provide some supporting information so that thoughtful consideration is fostered. Otherwise, it’s like saying, “There oughta be a law. . .” for anything one doesn’t like (like out parents did in the 40’s and 50’s).
I don’t think a base has anything to do with competition. It sets a standard for the industry and gives you an idea of how to set your fees. As to competition, I have never thought about it. There’s always enough to go around. This is my 3 rd state I have done this business in. I’m appalled at how low they offer the SAs here because of the abundance of agents. The job and cost of the job is the same . The Title companies charge for Notary/Courier on every transaction. It’s usually based at $125 and up. In this field your business is built on reliability, availability and quality of work.
The competition isn’t based on how many agents are in your area, it’s who is reliable to get the job done with little to no issues.
I have had to go out and redo many incorrectly done the first time. And if you’ll notice the instructions giving has grown. Not about the instructions of collecting closing funds or what color ink to use, but how to dress, how to complete the forms, what you can and can’t correct the venue of notarization. I hear horror stories of agents bringing their kids and grandparents into the house.
So I don’t worry about competition
