I like that method. It “keeps the peace” during the signing. Afterwards, you can alert everyone of the fraud attempt that occurred. In those instances, did you leave the borrower with document copy or no?
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OMG! I’m glad you’re ok. I have a stun gun AND pepper spray
Thank you for posting your experience and I’m thankful you were able to leave without harm.
I will certainly invest in a stun gun for safety!
I am glad that you where able to get out and was safe, when I have a borrower and a co-borrower, I all way ask for the other person when I am let them know that I am assign to be the Notary, that is when I check with both of them. But I have always had something with me.
Actually, I was in a similar situation before also. BUT, once you notarize those documents then they no longer belong to you, and legally you are required to ship them to whomever hired you. We do not guarantee the validity or truthfulness of documents, just that they were signed so be careful once you do proceed with the signing. Better not to , otherwise ship them back and explain to receiving party they are the owner so you must return them.
Wow that is crazy, I’ve been a NSA for almost 20 yrs. over 9000 signings, you meet alot of oddballs, strange people, I try to be friendly and even make little jokes to break the ice, nothing controversial. People are really tied emotionally to their money, we all are. I started in 2003 at the height of the subprime market when it was insane, ARMs were the norm, it was a crazy time to start unbeknownst to this newbie at the time. I’d go to people’s homes and the borrowers were freaking out cuz they’d been told by their LO’s to not make their payments and 2-3 months go by, they are still spending like there is no tomorrow, no money in their bank accounts, now they are $3000-$5000 behind in their mortgage payments, expecting to consolidate and now it’s a $$it show. Many were furious, livid, freaking out, crying, had some cussing, slamming their beers. I’d say, hey, I’m just the messenger, I’m sorry this happened, I only know what they sent me in the paperwork. I’m just a courier/notary/trusted field agent. I’ve seen my share of attempted fraud too, No ID, won’t show me the ID or held it at a distance (like seriously??) fake ID and even one where I got a call from a detective where a guy came to my office to sign docs, convenience for him and I took a copy of his ID on my copier and he signed my notary journal. He was claiming Mortgage fraud, house was not in foreclosure, 6 months later and he’d pulled $50K out, claims he didn’t sign the docs, I testified to the Detective and showed him my journal and his signature matched perfectly to his Drivers License the cop had pulled up on his computer, Case Closed. BTW that guy was a serial fraudster who’d defrauded multiple banks with his then 15 yrs. old grandson who also came to the closing and sat there quietly but for one sentence he said when the entered my office, this kid says, ‘Well Finally, I’ve been working on this for months’ Like What?? I didn’t say anything but I was thinking WTH? didn’t occur to me till afterwards and speaking with the detective as to what happened. As for Safety, I’m more concerned getting out of my car and going up to their house or leaving, due to dogs and or Freaks who have intent to harm. I’m not afraid of dogs, I’m an advanced working dog handler, but I’m also concerned about roaming dogs/packs of dogs that run around in neighborhoods. I usually honk my car when I pull into the driveway of the many country homes I go to. But I’ve had some really odd things happen to in this career, I’m not going to go out to peoples homes in a skirt or dress pants, I wear sturdy, clothes and shoes/sometimes work/or hiking type boots for safety. Walking on gravel driveways, up steep hills into peoples homes, I fell into a hole dug for some posts, my boot was stuck and I was up to my knee and couldn’t pull myself out, this was at dusk/dark and I couldn’t see coming out and these lamebrains didn’t bother to help navigate me through their maze of construction, complete morons, I was screaming for them to come help me, I literally couldn’t even slide my boot off to pull myself out. Another time I fell down an entire flight of ice covered steps. the Moron homeowner/borrower had me come in through the downstairs basement but when I left he said, oh you can go this way out, I said ok, he says to me as I was leaving it was winter/7pm’ish and dark, he says oh don’t grab the railing theirs staples sticking out from the Xmas lights. so I had my keys in my hand cuz their was a little flashlight, took one step and down I went flying, had the wind knocked out of me, I was crying, couldn’t catch my breath, he didn’t even bother to assist, my keys went into the snow bank, thankfully I was crawling around to find them, got to my car, it was horrible, the next morning I had literally 18 inches of black and blue from the back of my thigh to my waist and had to go to the hospital, I did file a small claim against his insurance company. But it only covered the medical and a few weeks of lost wages but I suffered with that injury for 12 yrs. now to my hip and butt cheek. The Lenders and Title are clueless about what we encounter, I feel like we are often treated somewhat inferior to them as they don’t even realize what we endure at times, While most of the time we meet really nice folks, other times we meet freaks. The Hoarders, those who expect you to stand for an hr., those that expect you to conduct closings in 90+degree heat in full sun in their driveway, Gripe and complain and expect you to put up with their barrage of cussing and insults and disrespect. Recently after leaving a US Bank HELOC closing, right like 20 min. closing, I explained in pretty much one sentence each doc I handed to the borrower, I acted professionally, friendly, smiling. Hey I know I’m on camera right? not gonna be a fool and destroy my career. Hand them their copies in a nice large envelope, tell them thankyou and have a great day, I wrap it up in the office, I’ve conducted many many closings at this branch and in this LO’s office. I walk out of the bank and the borrowers husband jumps out of his car, approaching me menacingly and starts pointing his finger at me and yelling and snarling at me, ‘THAT WAS THE WORST CLOSING EVER, YOU ARE SO UNPROFESSIONAL, WHAT A HORRIBLE PERSON YOU ARE, BLAH BLAH BLAH’ I was like "Excuse me??’ What are you talking about? He continued his barrage, unintelligible, His wife got out of the car and yelled at him to get in the car, I was walking away because I had no idea WTH this freak was gonna do or capable of. If this is how he treated someone he met for less than 30 min. can only imagine what his wife endures behind close doors. God Help her. I called Title immediately and told them what occurred, that I was shaken by this menacing man and had never had anything happen like that to me before. I told them if in doubt, ask Angela the LO, to pull camera footage in the bank, the place is loaded with cameras. the bottom line is you can only do what you can do, there’s alot of unhappy and miserable people in this world. I never knew that this job would at times expect you to be a ‘counselor’ to listen to people cry, rage, be depressed, happy/elated, and stone cold at times. Most of the time folks are really happy to see us right? then they are happy to see us leave so they don’t have to sign anymore too! Sorry this is long, I’ve just had the litany of stuff happen and more far too much to tell. Good Luck out there, Be Wise and Prudent in your dealings cuz you never know when someone will try to stab you in the back both literally or ‘mentally’.
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Thank you so much for sharing. My good friend and fellow notary told me of this incident. This is alarming. When we accept signing assignments, we do so under the presumption that all parties have been vetted and are acting in good faith. As a licensed realtor, I was always aware of the danger of doing business with strangers. I’m so glad that you lived to share your experience with us. It is a reminder that we must have a discerning and questioning posture, and we must be diligent in maintaining our safety.
This is great advice!
I love your strategy. It is better to be safe than sorry. I do carry protection, but I think I would go along with their plan and then handle it when I leave. I would not leave a copy of the documents either.
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The world we live in can be dangerous. I also took martial arts for a few years and can block a blow and throw a punch. At 72 years old actually had to do that about a year ago. I carry pepper spray and switch blade. My son-in-law bought me a stun gun. If drive way is large for multiple vehicles, I back in always for a quick get away. Portable weapons did not help when I ran into 2 bears on the way to my car. When I accidentally got between police chase with police dogs, weapon would not have helped with that vicious dog. People offering those low ball fees need to remember the dangers of working in the field. Be alert and be safe out there! 
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I ran into 2 bears on the way to my car. Oh Gosh, can we get BEAR pay?
Now I’ve heard it all.
Wow! Great and safe thinking. I thank you and the original Notary for sharing your experiences. I am not on this site as often as I could/should be, but every time I sign on, I learn something new. Thank you.
I have a carry permit, and practice regularly at the range. However, in the two instances I have faced in which I was certain fraud was being attempted, I simply completed a speedy signing (skipping right past the deed and note - and I did NOT leave the usual copy), and got out of there without confronting anyone. I am not a law enforcement officer, trained to handle criminals. As I took with me copies of the ID they had used and the documents they had signed, I felt I had crucial evidence of the crime, if indeed fraud had been committed. I wanted out of there before those people realized that!
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Dlewellen sounds like you have had some interesting experiences. What state are you in?? I’m in WA State and I DO NOT accept signings after dark ~ only daylight hours. I DO NOT sign if people are drinking alcohol or doing anything else that may impair judgement. As soon as I notice things are getting weird, walk away and don’t debate. Only had that happen once when we sat down to signing table and was evident that male head of the house had been drinking and was abusive to his wife. Just not acceptable. In State of WA signers must be coherant and aware of signing taking place.
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So, I wonder, in such crazy situation, would it be safer to let them sign, get out, call the police, and have this situation develop without risking your life? After all, if those docs do not make it to Title, and you explain that you played along to prevent serious life threat, wouldn’t it be better and safer?
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What state? No title Co or Attorney Office?
Also, similar situation… I never made it in the house… My signer suprised her partner who just left rehab…They were cursing and she was beating on hiom with a baby in hand… That was a mess too… I waited (i dont know why) then I called local PD and drove to another street to see what happened… But since this area was known for this type activity, an officer never showed… and they called me back to see if the situation was still happening… LS short, I called who gave me the signing and told them what happened and still got my fee…
Crazy times…
Thanks so much for sharing this. You made some very valid points and it is important to always be prepared to protect yourself as you stated. I definitely agree with you 100%.
I am guilty of NOT having protection. I had one and have not replaced it, but I will be ordering one today on Amazon!! Geeshh! Thanks for reminder!
I started in 1998, now with 9k + loan signed and have had similar experiences during that period. I fault the greedy lying loan officers for the craziness I routinely encountered. This recent “run up” has been night and day different.
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