Thank you for the tidbit. Just visited the county website and performed a quick 30 day search for recorded deeds. Could not believed the number of transactions that took place in the past 30 days (over 300 pages). Will used this as a guide.
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Same, it’s working for me!
The number one problem I see is that we have an over saturation of Notaries in the business now, so that is more competition for work and these title companies and signing agencies know this as well. I am in an attorney state NC and I have been told by several title companies and attorneys that they don’t like to be marketed to by Notaries. I agree with you that some of these youtube videos are not factual when it comes to what type of money you can make. Some of these claims of salary are a head scratcher, however you can make 11k a month depending on a number of factors. But don’t give up!! even if you have to work for some signing services and look for nation wide title companies…they need local notaries.
Hey @noblenotary615 how is your NSA business coming along? Any luck with signing services or title companies?
I’ve noticed a lot of what you’re saying in my area as well, but lately, I’ve been a bit TOO busy with signings.
Tbh, some of those tactics should be illegal, they just use it for a profit and then tell the client it the “notary fee” which can range from $250-500
yet they will pay their in-house notary MAYBE $13/hr which is practically $8 for that signing.
In a perfect world, I think there should be laws put in place where the notary either keeps the entire fee or the company has to be transparent about how much is going to the title company and to the notary.
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The ONLY reason I haven’t signed up with Notary2Pro yet is because she doesn’t offer a payment plan like her main competitor does. I’m so in the red on investment right now, I’m just going to have to wait. I’ve actually re-prioritized my revenue streams, moving the NSA work lower, because I just don’t have the funds for the additional training to compliment my training and certification through NNA right now. But again and again I see praise for her work.
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Thanks for asking! I’m slowly building up steam. I’m up to 55 signing services. I only hear from maybe 4 of them LOL. Getting work seems very random and inconsistent. The text blasts are so annoying, which is why I prefer to go direct. Unfortunately, out of 30 local title companies, only 1 has any use for me. It’s 1 job in August sometime. Can’t exactly pay the rent with that.
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Hey, 1 is better than zero! It gives you a chance to show your skills and get more business from them in the future. Do you know if there are any local signing services in your area? I’ve been getting a lot of work from the local SS’s. I also looked up signing agents on this site or Snapdocs and if any of them had an LLC, I called to see if they were a SS and if they were not, asked if they needed any help with signings. I didn’t have much luck with it but it’s something you could try! I know the end goal is to work direct and work for yourself but it’s a start.
I don’t think there are any signing services locally in TN. NotaryDash was one but I think they went out of business. Thanks, though!
Six figure incomes??? I’ve read a lot about the myth of a few notaries making 6 figure incomes and I’m skeptical. Of course, someone out there makes that much, but at what cost? They must work 100% of a 20 hour day.
Look, I’m kinda new at this work, but I’m a very experienced former bank auditor/investigator/risk management guy and I specialized in methods analysis and productivity in bank operations for over 30 years, so I know a little about operating efficiency. Now, I’m doing notary work and I’m learning a whole new approach to efficiency, because that’s how one makes the big bucks. And I’ve estimated that an efficient, busy-busy notary can certainly make $60K++ gross per year. But $100k or more? Don’t even think about it. If someone makes that much, I say “Let 'em”. You’ll pass them by on the way to your next signing while their in the hospital or morgue.
I’m learning that the longer one is in this business, the more work comes your way (albeit, s-l-o-w-l-y) and one must earn their chops. I have really studied the mechanics of this kind of work and I’m beginning to assemble a “pro forma” for how to do it efficiently. Each day, I think of something new to add or subtract from my operating practices so that I can get my signings done more efficiently and effectively. And, I’m preparing myself for the inevitable market slowdown which has already begun in most states other than California where I live. I calculate that refi’s are down 80% from March – that’s a slowdown, for sure. Inflation looms and things will get even tighter by year-end. Six-figure notaries will, in my view, be a thing of the past, so don’t listen to that pap.
Instead, we need to do two things to make it in this business, it seems to this rookie: 1) get real efficient; and, 2) don’t accept anything less than $100 for a signing (unless you’re just starting out as a notary). Communicate with signing houses, title companies and lenders and tell them that you’re highly efficient (you must be able to back that claim up!) and that your rates are both reasonable and sensible. As an industry group, we’ve got to work together to get to that magic $100 per signing minimum. I’m beginning to turn down the myriad of $75-$85 jobs that cost me $40 to do (You should know that my car takes only premium gas at this morning’s rate of $4.60 per gallon!!!). If the average job is 3 hours from time of acceptance to scan backs done and papers in the Fedex bag, after fully absorbed expenses, I’m making a little over $10 an hour, net. If I can’t find a way to DOUBLE that to $20, I’ll probably move on to something else.
Here’s the formula I use to calculate my net income:
- Job is $100
- Roundtrip 26.7 miles (typical distance) ÷ 20 mpg x $4.60 p/gal = $6.14
- Printing expense 175 pages X 2 = 350 pages X .01 ppg = $3.50
- Scan backs are a flat $5.00
- General operating expense (sq ft, utilities, office supplies, etc.) $10.00 per job
- Taxes (all types aggregated) 30% of gross ($100) = $30
So, $100 minus $6.14 minus $3.50 minus $5.00 minus $10.00 minus $30.00 = $45.36 net/net/net ÷ 3 hrs. (if I’m really efficient) $15.12 per hour.
I’ve got to find another $15 per job to feel like it’s worth it. That would be $5 per hour more for each of the he 3 hours I’m slammin’ and jammin’ to reach a $20 per hour wage.
Look, the title/escrow/lenders and the big signing houses have this figured out and I don’t fault them for trying to make as much $$ as they can. But as notaries, with all the hassles, liabilities and junk we have to endure, we should get a bigger slice of the pie, dontcha think? What I’d like to know, after thinking all this through, is how to the notaries who say they get $200 per signing pull that off? I’m guessing they have ‘exclusives’ and cut out the middleman.
These are just the thoughts of a newbie.
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Good job. Think your cost factor on scanback is quite low. I charge $25. My reasons (may not apply to all) are: I can’t just drop on way home, but have to return home to scan (mileage & time) & upload (time) and then go back out (mileage & time) to ship. If it truly is just a few pages, I might reduce scanback fee just a bit, but only when really applicable & if that’ll make it fly.
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Bobby, Many of us are in agreement with you on this topic. I’ve had to keep in mind the ones selling the 6-figure income are over promising as they have no down side risk if an NSA doesn’t make 6-figures. The purveyors of the 6-figure dream have to gain is the credit card number of the one who bought their training program. They carry nothing of the down side if an NSA leaves the business. I’ve spoken to several who’ve made this decision already.
You stated you’re turning down a “myriad of $75-$85 jobs that cost me $40 to do,” while encouraging the newbies take sub-$100 closings due to their inexperience. Those who are taking the sub-$100 closings are what’s driving down engagements. We are a commodity service that goes to the lowest bidder. We don’t get more money due to our experience. I’m seeing $65 closings in my area that will cost the NSA a minimum of $65 in expenses. These NSAs are essentially paying the Lender to close a loan.
I reworked your numbers that more closely reflects my experience in Texas.
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Job is $100
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Roundtrip 26.7 miles (typical distance), 26.7 miles x .50/mile (IRS Deduction) = $13.35. Be certain you’re including wear and tear, oil, tires, etc., on your vehicle.
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Printing expense 175 pages X 2 = 350 pages X $0.15 ppg = $52.5 including toner and wear on the printer. Print cost should also include your time to process (what you have to due to fill in, journalize, etc.) the documents.
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Scan backs are a flat $15.00 including your time to process. Your time is worth something. Taking 30 minutes to scan and package 175 is worth more than $5 of your time.
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General operating expense (sq ft, utilities, office supplies, etc.) $10.00 per job
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Taxes (all types aggregated) 30% of gross ($100) = $30
Out of your $100 engagement your making $100-$52.5-$13.35 = $34.15 before hold back for taxes.
For 3 hours work you’re at $11.38/hour EBITDA. Using your 30% for taxes this moves your per hour rate down to, $7.97/hour.
I didn’t include the time and mileage for the trip to Fedex.
Keep in mind those claiming $200 may not be making that much. Not everyone tells the truth. Some are working directly for Title Companies and have done so for a long time. When you hear then phrase ‘just go title direct’ they fail to grasp that these engagements are few and far between. Visit a TC in Texas and everyone is a Notary.
I have been fortunate to get exclusivity with two lenders. But I don’t make the big bucks with them. With my lenders they handle the printing and processing. All I have to do is show up and close.
I’ve unfortunately had to end my relationship with a few Signing Services recently when they started asking me to violate State Law and Generally Accepted Notary Practice. Their requests would put my Notary commission at risk.
Steps I’ve taken is to not accept less than $125/signing. If the engagement is close, in one case my zip code, I’ll adjust my rates. I’ve had to start a second business to make up for the declining business. I hope move NSA work to something value added to this second business.
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Exeter, you make many good points and I hope the newbies read all our stuff and take heed of how the proceed in their businesses. In the end, it seems to me, that perseverance and hard work still rule the day and close attention to efficiency, accounting and to TOP flight performance get most of us a ‘decent’ income.
I take the low-paying assignments to maintain cash flow and to build my reputation. The SS and TCs where I don’t make much hear from me with encouragement to up their fees. They seem to like my work and I’ve noticed that the jobs I get across the board each pay about $25 more than when I first started out. I’m still experimenting.
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There is a wealth of information online for small business owners/independent contractors on how to determine your actual costs without guesswork, Easiest way is to track your total paid for business and divide by the number of orders for hard costs. Track your payments for auto and paper (per mile and per page for variable costs for each order. Subtract costs from your gross and you know your profit.
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replace the word paper with the word printing
I’ve worked as an EO assistant and they usually pull from the Notary from signing companies. My direct work has come from establishing relationships from EO’s Iv’e already worked for in the past. The best way to do this through SnapDocs(technically they are not the middle man SS). I wouldn’t recommend direct marketing but try it all. The LSS disciples will say anything to rationalize spending that kind of money for basic info. I’m impressed that you have the confidence and transparency to speak on this, the direct marketing approach can feel demeaning at times. it feel like they are working backwards.
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Exactly, I’ve been in this industry for years. TC rather use top Notaries from SS that they have experience working with. EO’s don’t have time to track one person down they rather send one message to the SS and allow them to fill the need. I know this working for the TC as an assistant. Also Refi’s are down so where is all this work coming from? smh
This is a sad thing!
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I didn’t take Mark Wils course. I shadow someone on two signings who also have their own SS. Doing a few signings for her and using the internet as my classroom including this forum. I venture out on my own. Not signing up with any of the companies I did a signing for with her. Out of respect. In 6 months I accomplished what Mark Wils students take year/s to do. So it was possible. However, time has changed. Things are always changing but never like this. In 11 months the number of NSA from 1992 -2020 has more than quadrupled. There are way more NSA at the table so less work to go around. It doesn’t matter how good you are most companies send a blast out and it goes to the cheapest notaries with the highest score 1st, then trickles down.
The fees are much lower too because our peers have created a new avg by accepting lower rates. That 6 figure dream social media and the people selling the course and notary/NSA sold you is just that an unreachable dream for most of you. No one wants to hear the truth but numbers don’t lie.
Just look at the notary Cafe home page. Do the math on avg the notaries making $105.48 a signing. Out of 4,240,951 searches for notaries on their site in the last 12 months, their list of 71,210 agents received 119,484 closings. that 1.67 Closing per agent in 12 months. Say 30% arent active that give 2 signings / active agents. Say they got all 4,240,951 that 59.55 signings in 12 months that 1.14 signing a week. Lets say 2 per agent since there’s a chance all agent aren’t active. For a total of $210,96 in 12 months from this one SS/Directory or from the 2nd example $6,281.33. Now do that math at $65 and $30. Oh, don’t forget to minus out your expense.
A lot of what they’re teaching you all right now won’t work in today’s industry unfortunately. But they won’t tell that. What did mark say no there’s isn’t an over saturation lol. Why would he tell you the there is. If he did they be no need for you to pay for his/their services. How ever do a search on snap doc there more page number under you area then when you first started. Check your state Notary site, look at the years of Exp on NNA. So many way to see the change
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There seems to be a lot of disconnect with NSA to title and lenders. I always hear of complaining, no notaries available, missing signatures and title/lenders can’t find good notaries they can work with consistently who will be always available, on time and complete the signing correctly the first time. At the same time there is competition for NSA work and to stay busy. I think there is a need and enough work it’s just not streamlined. There’s a process issue. Also a fee that may make sense in one state might be not enough in another where cost of living is severely high. For example, in GA and WY the minimum wage is a little over $5 so a $70 signing is amazing money there. While CA, WA, MA are around $14 for minimum wage with high gasoline prices and crazy rent prices so a notary cannot make a good living taking $70 signings in those states.
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