I printout two packages ( one for borrower) on letter/ legal paper 152 pages each - total 304 pages ( cost per page around 0.025 around $7.60 total)
It took me almost two hours of my time ( even if we count this as min wage of $15 total is $ 30) , full black cartridge ($34) . The signing was 6 min away so I will not mention gas. The signing was done in 45 min ( Lucky I had client that is familiar with the process so there was no “hiccups” everything went fast and smooth. ( $15 ) I came back home , scanned 152 pages , since they are mixed letter / legal and my HP scanner is slow it took me 3 hours!!! ( $15x3= $45)
So let’s do the math:
7.60+30+34+15+45= $131.60
I spent all together 5 hours on this loan / labor and $41.60 for material. Am I missing something?
I accept this signing for $100 so I am in loss, bad business women lol
Not to mention that the client was charged for my services $375! If you pay attention you can see that in a paperwork.
I really wonder how some SA accept $85 fee I really wish to see their math.
And there is a lot of them , since the orders that I receive for $80 $85 $90 I don’t reject or accept I replay offering service for $100 $125 but they get assigned for the price SS offered.
Can you show me your math?
And just quick reminder , I forgot to mention that you as a SA paid for your licence , background check, SA insurance - since the Notary one does not cover all…
P.S.From this perspective $125 is too low I will start from $175 I will not work for free
I spend most of my day hours rejecting those $85 or counter-offering, but as you mentioned, someone must be accepting them, NOT me. Some of them I don’t even bother in answering
The other day I rejected 3 offers between $85-$100 in a row, guess what happened!?.. I received 2 offers from Old Republic, worth $200 each … as @Arichter advices all the time PEOPLE, PLEASE, WORK SMARTER, NOT HARDER… AND VALUE YOUR TIME AND EXPENSES
I agree with the objective of this post - the low-fee signings are not conducive to a profitable business venture…but @anitakostich I have a couple comments as to your math
A full black cartridge ($34) - for 304 pages?? If you’re only getting 300 pages out of your cartridges you need to find a better printer and better provider.
$15/hour minimum wage - not sure where you are but in FL is $8 and change still - not going to be $15/hour for 4 years.
3 hours to scan a package? Yeah, no - IMO this coupled with your printing capabilities - I think you need better, more efficient equipment.
Keep in mind - I agree that the low fees just aren’t worth it - glad you saw that too.
Yes, Anita! You’ve got it accurately itemized. As a business owner, the onus is upon you to ensure that you’re paid for all out-of-pocket expenses as well as for your Valuable Time!
I do have a question about this part of your post please: "full black cartridge ($34) "
It does sound as if maybe you’re utilizing an InkJet printer. Did you know that these documents are to be printed on laser printers only?
AMEN! After doing 2 closings and my first reverse mortgage application yesterday, each requiring either full or partial scan-backs within a certain time frame of their respective appointment time, same-day delivery to the courier, and I received the docs for two of the signings less than 2 hours of the their appointment time, I made the same decision.
I truly, TRULY, wish we all could be in the same page with fees, is sad to read that some new agents are convinced that this is the only way to get assignments. If we all start rejecting and counter-offering to minimum $115, not $100, BUT $115, low ballers won’t have a choice but to accept it and raise their offers… and they’re still making money.
Definitely sounds like you need to “take the hit” on some of the lower paying jobs and upgrade your equipment as it sounds like it is printing debt. Also, I recommend those who 'crunch numbers" on the math to not waste your time. Keep in mind of 2 factors as to why pricing/fees will never change for us:
Someone will ALWAYS take the $70 jobs, and its almost ALWAYS a seasoned, established signing agent. WHY? (for those who like math) because it ALL ADDS UP at the end. Logistics/location is key here. I will take a $70 REFI 2 block walk down the street, but not for a 30 minute drive away. (No gas, no travel time, wear/tear, etc.)
The majority of the signings you receive come from people who did what we’re doing. They know the “ins and outs” and what costs what. It’s how they advanced from a signing agent to a signing service. They simply “forgot where they came from” to get that “6 figures a year” that everyone boasts about, dreams about, but only a handful of folks actually got. You have to think “outside the box” and make it work for you. Do you really think the customer cares about everything in that thick packet? Nope! They care about 4 things:
What’s my Interest rate?
Is it fixed?
When’s my first payment due?
and is there a prepayment penalty?
All of this is on the CD, which they should have seen and electronically signed before you got to the table. Make it work for you (if you get my drift).
Yes I use laser printer but HP one I have is really bad and slow. I am doing my search for better and faster laser printer/scanner but not to break my budget.
To simplify, If I take a $70 Refi two blocks down the road its because I’m making a PROFIT. Meaning, it wasn’t a low number for me at that time/situation. So if this was not the case in your $85-$100 dollar signing, then you simply decline or counter. I personally could care less what my client is getting paid, I’m concerned about what I’m getting paid, and fortunately we have control over that, by either accepting or declining the job. So to answer your question? You would be the person “making it all add up in the end” if it works for your situation at the time.
I absolutely agree with VVS, but lately is a tendency for lower aggregators offers and I work with them as menu of you do. Also the requirements for this and that are adding up or are ridiculous. Masks, gloves, sanitation materials, more documents for identity and covids. All this eats our bottom line. Yep, sometimes you take bad deals. But optimizing the process is in your hands, and then positioning to ask for more. When someone is asking me about this job, I am telling them:
You need a very reliable car,2 very reliable printers (I should buy a second reliable one and same brand as VVS in our conversation about printers), so you should invest a good $2000 in technology, licensing and materials. You also should keep upgrading your knowledge constantly. 30% from your income should go back to your business. This is what it is with me right now.
An example: one day I’ve got a deal at the end of the day. It was my 4th or 5th, and I was happy to add to my profit. When I got there, one from the signers had a problem with his hand and the signing took me 3-4 hours total. I came home almost at midnight. So, from this day I learned to do not pre estimate my profits. But I still counting how far I can go and what price offer I should take.
I know, right? Since RESPA, something needs to be done in Congress about loan settlement slavery to unsuspecting new notaries.
Signing specialist have much more to lose than, say, an appraiser who generate $500-$700 per closing. Not to mention, we take in to our hands borrowers personal/private information, request copy of ids and scan backs, drop to overnight store, record in journals and more. I just don’t understand it. We are worth more than $1k for, at minimum, taking on such a great responsibility. I’m beginning to see why the 1980s real estate bust because of sketchy real estate loan practices. $225 to start is deserving
Can you do the profit on this offer? I really want to see how it works in your perspective?
Don’t forget backscannes , and the instructions of possibility that husband is not gonna be at a same place . And the signing is in the State of Illinois. Thank you
My math:
Print 300 pages on my high volume professional canon printer. Takes around 6 minutes and costs less than .008 cents a page toner and paper included. I do the signing and come back and scan 150 pages in around 5 minutes with my top of the line scanner. Sounds like the issue here is your lack of quality equipment. I used to do that too but it is not worth it. Invest in some better equipment. I take $85 signings all day long and do very well.
I never do partial scan backs as it take more time dig out the critical docs than is does to do a full scan back. I also tell my clients that scan backs are done after hours. None have objected to this.
Are you using an ink jet rather than a laser printer? $34 for a cartridge sounds like an ink cartridge, a laser cartridge will be closer to $50-100 depending on the printer. A brother printer will set you back about $250. Buy after market cartridges. They make printers cheap hat get you on the cartridge.
You may have to look at your process to see what can be streamlined. Part of the reason I do my scan backs after hours is I can take care of house hold chores, balancing the company books, ordering office supplies, etc., while documents are being scanned.
