One thing about this forum, it allows our colleagues to share a variety of different thoughts and opinions. In most parts, there are no right or wrong answer and everyone have a right to express their opinion. It’s especially okay to agree to disagree on each other’s position. I agree with you on negotiation, which is an art that must be practiced in order to become skillful. Arichter, I have always found valued in your contribution to this forum. For instance, you made a very valid point on the proximity of a LSA, when accepting an assignment. Again I agree with you, about having to learn how this game is played. For those of us, who have been in this industry for more than the past five years, have heard this discussion on “low fees”, it’s not new. The real truth “low fees” are based on the principles of economics (business cycles). Of course, this is just my point of view and that will not buy you a cup of coffee… But if anyone wants too, we can meet virtually for a discussion and your favorite drink…LOL
Yes, thank you for that. Sometimes working in an attorney state can be quite discouraging at times, but I seem to make my quota every month. though it doesn’t seem as though I do it without a struggle. But I wouldn’t change anything. I love being a loan signing agent.
Hi Trsss, I’m guessing I have not been a Notary Signing Agent as long as Arichter has been; her advise is sound. Today, I’m seeing advertisements from companies who offer NSA training so you can earn $150.00 per assignment or per hour. I have some title company direct clients who used to offer $125.00 to $150.00 per assignment and who are now offer $95.00 to $100.00 per assignment and Signing Services who are now offering signings anywhere from $40.00 to $65.00. Personally, I’m turning down assignments at that low amount.
Everyone has to take the time to understand what it costs them to conduct business. Do more than jot down some numbers. Open a spreadsheet or a financial template and take the time to include all your costs; it’s easy to include all the obvious costs and forget that there are other costs that you might not immediately think of, including what wage/salary do you need to take from the business, especially if you need the income to pay your rent/mortgage, buy food, pay for utilities, etc. Personally, my spreadsheet has a sub-routine so that I can update the volatile costs, such as gas, everytime the price at the pump changes.
Once you know what your costs of being in business are, then you can decide for yourself what your price point is for assignments you will accept or reject.
Personally, I do not like the concept of someone taking a $30.00 or $40.00 signing assignment “to get the experience,” but that’s an individual decision. If you want to be known by a Signing Service as someone who will work for peanuts, go for it. Just remember, that may be the kinds of offers you set yourself up to receive. And, if you think Signing Services do not track data about their clients and their NSA’s in the minutest of details, I suggest you should do some diligent research.
Thank you. See…it ain’t just me repeating this endlessly. 
So true, @terry Appreciate your post.
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Here is a guideline for those new to this business sector that is quite helpful to create an individualized List of Fees for professional services provided in our industry . . .
NOTE: Current IRS mileage rate is = 65.5 cents/mile
It would be in your best interest to jot down all of the expenses associated with performing the services you provide within your service region to determine a baseline operating cost. Then, at that point, you can calculate the fees that will generate a net profit to determine if you’ll have a Profit or sustain a Loss at that rate.
There are many items to consider within your Overhead calculations. Here are a few to get you started:
• telephone expenses including cell phone equipment and monthly service fees
• office equipment and furniture; i.e., work chair, work desk, reliable dual-tray printer, trustworthy scanner, etc.
• Notarial stamps for Jurats, Acknowledgements, Notarial Name, Commission Expiration, etc.
• rent and utilities
• paper
• toner
• binder clips
• pens (inexpensive for one-time use)
• stationery and supplies including stamps & envelopes
• travel costs to & from signer locations (i.e., create a generic by county list)
• travel costs to & from FedEx/UPS/USPS, etc. (i.e., choose your favorite location OR the closest that will provide you with a receipt)
• business insurance
• business-related meals and entertainment
• professional association memberships
• annual background checks
• annual certification expenses
• legal and accounting fees
• tax preparation fees
• advertising and marketing costs; i.e., Google ads, yellow pages ad, website, business cards, or brochure
• Protection equipment; i.e., COVID-19 masks, hand sanitizer, wipes, etc.
AND many more!
Your individual overhead would also include the cost of fringe benefits; i.e., medical insurance, disability insurance, retirement benefits. Also, remember to include quarterly income tax payment to federal & state (as appropriate) and self-employment taxes.
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If calculating all this accurately seems to be a bit overwhelming, reach out to your tax advisor and ask for guidance in this regard. 
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Also, there is an excellent specific cost breakdown by one business owner for services within her [ @anon78047977 ] region & for her overhead:
"Ok for a seasoned already in business Signing Agent (meaning no start up costs to factor in, just on going costs)
Average Refinance
- 150 pages (300 when having to print 2 copies)
- 35 miles average miles to signing/from signing/to FedEx drop
- Print cost average .15 per page (Laser printer, standard paper. Note this is also the cost at Staples, FedEx Office in the area BUT I have actually calculated my real costs by dividing the number of pages I get from a toner kit, my drum kit, cost of paper etc. but I use this average of .15 because there are Notaries around who actually use outside printing)
- IRS mileage .56 per mile [current rate is .655] (you can use actual costs of gas, insurance, plus maintenance costs. I will use the IRS rate because it’s a good average and I also have Tolls I have to pay which I will not add in this example. Also later I kind of use this amount as a “catch all” for other expenses. Again, I have determined my “actual” costs and the averages I use are pretty spot on.)
- 2.25 hours an average total time spent which includes, confirming appt & reviewing instructions, printing/prepping docs, travel time to/from/to FedEx, signing/notarizing docs, scan back
- Costs that people usually do not take into consideration because it’s part of their household BUT they are costs of running a business (home office expenses - internet, electric, computer, phone, supplies, etc.) Remember every business has similar expenses
So here we go…let’s look at average total for this signing:
$45 print costs
$19.60 mileage rate (So this number is based on IRS mileage rate. I use this number as a catch all to give me an estimate of my actual costs (gas, toll, %of annual maintenance, %of insurance and a % of home office costs, %of supplies, etc. Since I know my % for every business expenses, I already know this number is pretty close to my actual costs. For example my actual costs for this signing would be around $21)
It will cost me $64.60 for a 150 page refinance order. With no issues, no traffic, no reprints, no problems
If I took a $75 signing fee I would net $10.40
I would net roughly $4.62 per hour for a signing that took up 2.25 hours of my time.
$95 I would net $30.40 or $13.51 per hour
$125 I would net $60.40 or $26.84 per hour
$150 I would net $85.40 or $37.96 per hour
So when I advocate for SAs and fees I am not just coming up with number off the top of my head. I have done the math for myself personally."
SOURCE: Signing Agent Fee is Just Not a Notary Fee - #38 by notarybe
Two more cost factors to think about: Self-employed Income Tax and inflation.
Sorry…missed that. Really wish every notary would be as exacting as you are and DO THEIR OWN MATH. If they did, these constant posts about low fees would disappear because they’d realize there is no profit!
Taxes seem to be the one thing many people never (especially new people) consider when figuring their costs. I’ve seen far too may postings where people think the money they make in loan signings and as a notary is tax-exempt…and that’s scary.
I totally agree. Thanks for your response.
~TRSSS
@Arichter Much gratitude for your note. 
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There’s always much to be learned by utilizing simple observation & learning vicariously while simultaneously deftly avoiding the dreadful pain of directly making a costly mistake. That’s why so many of us business owners take the time to share our direct experiences.
Some refer to this education as a degree from the University of SHK [School of Hard Knocks].
The bulk of my experience & edification originated from the University of SHK; however, the essential & most valuable training, education, certification, & development of insights stemmed from my years at the University of Texas as Austin (graduated in '96) as a non-traditional student => simply meaning “older than average.”
The reason I refer to it as the valuable component is that it was at that juncture that I was able to think critically, gain a vantage point at 30,000 feet, and implement depth perception on a scenario strategically. It also helped to have achieved my international certification as a Project Management Professional. Talk about ticky-dot-detail requirements! PMI wrote the official book [PM-BOK] on that for PMPs. So, the credit and/or blame can from at least a 30% standpoint be attributed there . . .
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I do endeavor to share as much helpful information/data as possible. As a fellow business owner, I often have little time to donate on the forum . . . but I give it my best when time is available!
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Again, @Arichter Thank You for your Acknowledgement/kudos. As you’re already aware, I appreciate & admire your contributions greatly!
$150 with scans. In most cases anything less like seller closing at least $100. For my time and expenses I normally don’t accept anything less than $100.
ROI - return on investment
Thats great, Thanks for your response.
I live in a rural area with single lane roads and lots of people our county has over 1 million people
a RE FI was typically 150+pages and they wanted 2 copies
a very tedious package and you need to pay attention
.easy 60 +minutes to sign and then check before you leave add 20 minutes
now almost 90 minutes
I add for travel
both ways
scan backs?
add $25-50 depends on size of package
out here 30 miles can take 60 + minutes of travel each way… its the geography and traffic
that’s 2 hours to travel minimum no traffic…
90 min minimum at the home to sign and review
so Now 3 1/2 hours
back up…
u printed 2 copies a laser printer 15- 20 minutes NOW UR AT 4 HOURS
with 2 trays for legal and letter size paper
case of letter size paper is 45-65$
legal size is 65-85$ both for 10 reams toner is $106. staples ships and has sales as does amazon
I always prep the docs …“sign here stickers and notarize” stickers 5-10 $ for the packages of stickers
30-45 minutes for that on a 150 page re fi NOW AT 4 1/2 HOURS
OH SCAN BACKS set ur scanner printer to legal size 300 pixels
150 pages easy 20-30 minutes with e mails etc
NOW ur at 5 hours
Then travel back to drop docs( my UPS store and Fedex is 40 min round trip and close by 5 pm)
typically I tell title or whomever I will scan tonight and drop tomorrow unless its early enough to make the drop
almost 6 hours plus car expense wear and tear insurance gas clothes
etc
I want $200-300.
If i travel further I add travel expense.
dont forget if its closer i also reduce that fee.
i did 60 miles r/t at $325 for a HELOC with scans.
in my area certain packages are quick 25 45 minutes out the door , but it still takes me 3-4 hours r/t to drive
and scan is extra.
I include MY TIME
I was taught about $50 per hours
A re fi 15 minutes away 150 pages w scans I can take 125 they dont want to pay but i dont discount
I figured out how much I made in 2022, deducted my expenses and divided. It takes me $55 per signing to pay my expenses. I need to consider my TIME so that is why I charge $100 for Refi’s (Average for my area. When I ask for more I get overlooked.) Occasionally I will accept $90- especially when it’s been a week between signings. (I’m in a lesser populated state than most others) $90 is better than nothing when I still have to pay expenses like Phone, Insurance, Internet, etc.
Marcy Tibero had a YOU TUBE video explaining fees and it was enlightening. She explained that with so many signing companies and fewer closings, a lot of the time these signing companies are also accepting lesser fees to get the work, so they offer less per signing.
It stinks because we are the ones in the trenches paying for gas, paper, ink and all the other costs of doing business. It seems it should be the opposite. We charge more, the signing companies charge more, the title companies charge more and the lender charges more=the signer pays more. These lenders are getting MORE interest, so they should be able to AFFORD to pay us more!
Couldn’t agree more…they should be able to pay us better; they just don’t have to because there’s almost always someone who will take it at a loss. I know I’m comparing apples to oranges with the following–but it has ALWAYS struck me as a ‘does-not-compute-concept’ when the Lender will get back way more than we are paid with just the interest from the very first payment on any loan.
Just a suggestion – open a FedEx account & schedule pick ups at your house for your packages. The cost falls on the person paying for the label – not you.
I live rural also & have been doing this for 7 years with no complaints from anyone.
If I were doing loan signings I would try that…again…back in my day they would not pick up from me…nor am I guaranteed first .morning delivery either, even now.