@vroomnotary Great question. It’s good to see as a business owner you’re willing to Research data for development of your new business.
This was previously answered for you directly within the following thread:
With this additional response within the same thread:
With a reference to begin at the top of the thread here for full details:
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FYI: A Google search will provide you with a direct answer to your second query; i.e., ROI.
@vroomnotary ROI = Return On Investment
I figured it out earlier. Thank you so much…
What is the average fee for a Refinance? For as long as I can remember (and that’s a long time) the average fee has been $250. It’s easy to check, just go to the notary fee on the same closing disclosure that the signer received a copy of several days before you arrived to sign the loan. That’s your money! and you deserve every penny. If you are not recieving that fee then somebody else is getting it and hiring you to do all the work. The sad part is the signer thinks you’re getting paid $250. That’s why occasionally a signer will lament how they should get in the “business”.Forget trying to explain to them that you are only getting $50, they will think you’re lying.
What questions? They’ll tell you what you want to hear. Vet them yourself…here, there, everywhere. Don’t like what you’re seeing? GIVE IT BACK PROMPTLY and tell ';em why–or work for free…maybe they’ll pay you next time~~ That was sarcasm–there shouldn’t be a ‘next time’ for non-payers.
That is such an open ended question, “What is the average fee for a Refinance?”. Let’s agree to the following definition of “Average” which is the summaizon of the low and high signing fees divided by the total number of the signing fees. . Keeping it “real”, that is a statistical question that can only be answered by Loan Signing Agents that are specifically located geographically in your marketplace area. We all can only speak from our own experiences. If you are a beginner in the business, you may not be able to get the same fees as an experienced LSA located in your area. There’s so many different variable factors to determines an average fee for a LSAs. Since 2020, things have drastically changed in our industry and impacted our loan signing fees. At the end of the day, we work in a “free market” and you have to learn how to get business and build your experienced at the same time. As an experienced LSA, I may be able to pass up on some low paying assignments, where a LSA beginner will never get started in this industry if they do not accept those low fee assignments that I elected not to accept. When I first got started in this industry, fortunately I was to take any assignment that I could get to get experience and build relationships. So, those low paying signing fees, eventually increase and I got exposed to various types of loan packages. The upside too, I established my relationships with various signing services and that led to building direct relationships with title companies. I am not a advocate of advising new LSAs to focus on trying to get the highest “fees”. I recommend that new LSA to focus on getting as many assignments possible to grow their knowledge, skills, and build their relationships. Keep in mind, the assignments that you turn down, someone else will accept it. In this business the competition is so great, it’s a title company/signing service market.
Good educational post. I do disagree with ‘take lowball to start’. It may have worked for you–but it’s so area/competition/timing dependent that it’s not a good idea for all. Quite realistically, all they will do is find the next newb taking low fees to start.
FWIW: It seems that they will begin with an offer of about half of what they’re willing to pay–unless time is really short. It is a GAME, if you learn to play it well, you will get more signings at better fees, while avoiding working for minimum wage or less. Even with years of experience, they will still take the lowest fee…which, realistically, IS the closest notary as time/mileage are the biggest expense factor when calculating a PROFITABLE fee.
I am in SC. It’s true for purchases or refinances of a SC property, it must be a licensed SC Attorney. However, I stay very busy with refinances, purchases, and seller’s packages because the properties are in other (non-Attorney) states. I live in a resort area and there are lots of vacationers and folks in their summer homes, also people moving here and selling their property that is located elsewhere. Just because you are in an Attorney state doesn’t mean you can’t find success as an NSA.
One thing about this forum, it allows our colleagues to share a variety of different thoughts and opinions. In most parts, there are no right or wrong answer and everyone have a right to express their opinion. It’s especially okay to agree to disagree on each other’s position. I agree with you on negotiation, which is an art that must be practiced in order to become skillful. Arichter, I have always found valued in your contribution to this forum. For instance, you made a very valid point on the proximity of a LSA, when accepting an assignment. Again I agree with you, about having to learn how this game is played. For those of us, who have been in this industry for more than the past five years, have heard this discussion on “low fees”, it’s not new. The real truth “low fees” are based on the principles of economics (business cycles). Of course, this is just my point of view and that will not buy you a cup of coffee… But if anyone wants too, we can meet virtually for a discussion and your favorite drink…LOL
Yes, thank you for that. Sometimes working in an attorney state can be quite discouraging at times, but I seem to make my quota every month. though it doesn’t seem as though I do it without a struggle. But I wouldn’t change anything. I love being a loan signing agent.
Hi Trsss, I’m guessing I have not been a Notary Signing Agent as long as Arichter has been; her advise is sound. Today, I’m seeing advertisements from companies who offer NSA training so you can earn $150.00 per assignment or per hour. I have some title company direct clients who used to offer $125.00 to $150.00 per assignment and who are now offer $95.00 to $100.00 per assignment and Signing Services who are now offering signings anywhere from $40.00 to $65.00. Personally, I’m turning down assignments at that low amount.
Everyone has to take the time to understand what it costs them to conduct business. Do more than jot down some numbers. Open a spreadsheet or a financial template and take the time to include all your costs; it’s easy to include all the obvious costs and forget that there are other costs that you might not immediately think of, including what wage/salary do you need to take from the business, especially if you need the income to pay your rent/mortgage, buy food, pay for utilities, etc. Personally, my spreadsheet has a sub-routine so that I can update the volatile costs, such as gas, everytime the price at the pump changes.
Once you know what your costs of being in business are, then you can decide for yourself what your price point is for assignments you will accept or reject.
Personally, I do not like the concept of someone taking a $30.00 or $40.00 signing assignment “to get the experience,” but that’s an individual decision. If you want to be known by a Signing Service as someone who will work for peanuts, go for it. Just remember, that may be the kinds of offers you set yourself up to receive. And, if you think Signing Services do not track data about their clients and their NSA’s in the minutest of details, I suggest you should do some diligent research.
@terry what a good post!!!
Thank you. See…it ain’t just me repeating this endlessly. 
So true, @terry Appreciate your post.
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Here is a guideline for those new to this business sector that is quite helpful to create an individualized List of Fees for professional services provided in our industry . . .
NOTE: Current IRS mileage rate is = 65.5 cents/mile
It would be in your best interest to jot down all of the expenses associated with performing the services you provide within your service region to determine a baseline operating cost. Then, at that point, you can calculate the fees that will generate a net profit to determine if you’ll have a Profit or sustain a Loss at that rate.
There are many items to consider within your Overhead calculations. Here are a few to get you started:
• telephone expenses including cell phone equipment and monthly service fees
• office equipment and furniture; i.e., work chair, work desk, reliable dual-tray printer, trustworthy scanner, etc.
• Notarial stamps for Jurats, Acknowledgements, Notarial Name, Commission Expiration, etc.
• rent and utilities
• paper
• toner
• binder clips
• pens (inexpensive for one-time use)
• stationery and supplies including stamps & envelopes
• travel costs to & from signer locations (i.e., create a generic by county list)
• travel costs to & from FedEx/UPS/USPS, etc. (i.e., choose your favorite location OR the closest that will provide you with a receipt)
• business insurance
• business-related meals and entertainment
• professional association memberships
• annual background checks
• annual certification expenses
• legal and accounting fees
• tax preparation fees
• advertising and marketing costs; i.e., Google ads, yellow pages ad, website, business cards, or brochure
• Protection equipment; i.e., COVID-19 masks, hand sanitizer, wipes, etc.
AND many more!
Your individual overhead would also include the cost of fringe benefits; i.e., medical insurance, disability insurance, retirement benefits. Also, remember to include quarterly income tax payment to federal & state (as appropriate) and self-employment taxes.
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If calculating all this accurately seems to be a bit overwhelming, reach out to your tax advisor and ask for guidance in this regard. 
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Also, there is an excellent specific cost breakdown by one business owner for services within her [ @anon78047977 ] region & for her overhead:
"Ok for a seasoned already in business Signing Agent (meaning no start up costs to factor in, just on going costs)
Average Refinance
So here we go…let’s look at average total for this signing:
$45 print costs
$19.60 mileage rate (So this number is based on IRS mileage rate. I use this number as a catch all to give me an estimate of my actual costs (gas, toll, %of annual maintenance, %of insurance and a % of home office costs, %of supplies, etc. Since I know my % for every business expenses, I already know this number is pretty close to my actual costs. For example my actual costs for this signing would be around $21)
It will cost me $64.60 for a 150 page refinance order. With no issues, no traffic, no reprints, no problems
If I took a $75 signing fee I would net $10.40
I would net roughly $4.62 per hour for a signing that took up 2.25 hours of my time.
$95 I would net $30.40 or $13.51 per hour
$125 I would net $60.40 or $26.84 per hour
$150 I would net $85.40 or $37.96 per hour
So when I advocate for SAs and fees I am not just coming up with number off the top of my head. I have done the math for myself personally."
SOURCE: Signing Agent Fee is Just Not a Notary Fee - #38 by notarybe
Two more cost factors to think about: Self-employed Income Tax and inflation.
Sorry…missed that. Really wish every notary would be as exacting as you are and DO THEIR OWN MATH. If they did, these constant posts about low fees would disappear because they’d realize there is no profit!
Taxes seem to be the one thing many people never (especially new people) consider when figuring their costs. I’ve seen far too may postings where people think the money they make in loan signings and as a notary is tax-exempt…and that’s scary.
I totally agree. Thanks for your response.
~TRSSS
@Arichter Much gratitude for your note. 
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There’s always much to be learned by utilizing simple observation & learning vicariously while simultaneously deftly avoiding the dreadful pain of directly making a costly mistake. That’s why so many of us business owners take the time to share our direct experiences.
Some refer to this education as a degree from the University of SHK [School of Hard Knocks].
The bulk of my experience & edification originated from the University of SHK; however, the essential & most valuable training, education, certification, & development of insights stemmed from my years at the University of Texas as Austin (graduated in '96) as a non-traditional student => simply meaning “older than average.”
The reason I refer to it as the valuable component is that it was at that juncture that I was able to think critically, gain a vantage point at 30,000 feet, and implement depth perception on a scenario strategically. It also helped to have achieved my international certification as a Project Management Professional. Talk about ticky-dot-detail requirements! PMI wrote the official book [PM-BOK] on that for PMPs. So, the credit and/or blame can from at least a 30% standpoint be attributed there . . .
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I do endeavor to share as much helpful information/data as possible. As a fellow business owner, I often have little time to donate on the forum . . . but I give it my best when time is available!
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Again, @Arichter Thank You for your Acknowledgement/kudos. As you’re already aware, I appreciate & admire your contributions greatly!
