After six years, I’ve finally found my specialty in hospital work, which usually means notarizing estate planning documents. I rarely get called any more for real estate transactions and I’m happy to leave that behind me. This is much more satisfying. People really appreciate when you show up at their room and provide a great service, all without overcharging. I’ve been doing it a few years and finally decided to focus on it after reading Laura Biewer’s book.
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I do a lot of hospital/nursing home signings and used to co-own a home health care business. Be careful with them, you don’t want to end up in the middle of a lawsuit. There have been many times where I’ve had to decline notarizing because the people who hired me lied about the signers mental state. The signer had no idea what was going on or lucid enough to give consent. I’ve seen advice before to have the nurse or dr verify their ability to sign but that’s not something any decent Dr or nurse would do. I’ve also had to testify due to family members challenging the estate or POA. There are a lot of vultures that come out of the woodwork when someone isn’t doing well. I increased my E&O insurance and also got commercial liability insurance since I’ve started focusing on estate and poa signings.
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Just wondering though why a decent dr or nurse should not verify their ability to sign. Just asking. I’ve never asked them - I just ask the signer questions myself.
It’s a liability issue and they could be sued if it comes out that the patient wasn’t of sound mind. Nurses and Drs generally aren’t going to take the risk unless they are new and don’t know any better. A caregiver who is around them everyday and knows them well would be more likely but when I was running our home health care business I would tell caregivers not to take on that risk either. After dealing with so many crazy family members and seeing how people can be I make sure to really be diligent and do everything strictly by the book. Chances are at some point you will be subpoenaed to testify. May not happen often but it will happen eventually.
Estate and POA paperwork are one of the most common documents that end up in court next to divorce and anything to do with children like notarized support agreements or travel paperwork. A lot of notaries don’t like to take on that risk but it is very rewarding for those of us who do it. Just make sure you protect yourself and your business.
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Regarding having the doctor or nurse verify their ability to sign (in addition to @amandadavenport wonderful advice) - the doctor or nurse have no obligation or right to speak to you about this as you are a third party - it’s a HIPAA violation
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I’ve never asked them to do that. I merely ask the signer questions such as - can you tell me the purpose of this document, and - are you willing to sign this today? And I definitely wouldn’t ask the caregiver because sometimes they become so close to the family, they’re not objective.
Thanks for the advice. I’ve been visiting signers at assisted living facilities and hospitals since 2021.
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Increased your E&O insurance to what? The statement isn’t helpful unless we know what you think a good amount would be.
That’s really up to you honestly and what you can afford however I increased it from a $100,000 policy to a $1,000,000 policy and also added a business owners liability policy in case I get sued which covers me for a lot more than just errors and omissions up to $2,000,000. I also have a physical office though so I need it to protect my property but it would come in handy if there is a legitimate reason for arguing against the notarization. I’m not accusing you of doing anything wrong, just stating for any newbies thinking of getting into this line of work to make sure they protect themselves because these types of documents are argued against often.
Solid advice. I’ve been put in two situations where I was being HEAVILY pressured to have the client sign and me notarize their documents. I used to work at an all male maximum security prison for 6.5 years so I’m used to being put in precarious situations and safely get myself out of them. @Notary_veg, I’m glad you found your niche! That’s wonderful. Keep up the good work!
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When I got my first commission in the late 1990s, AIDS was still raging. I notarized quite a few powers of attorney, and the signers were quite aware of what was going on. Not the same as the Covid pandemic at all. Those unfortunate people were intubated. It was quite a challenge. I had a hospital assignment today. It paid very well, better than any loan signing. It takes a different skill, but once you get the hang of it, it might be all you wanna do.
My wife and I own an in-home care service business. As a result of my general notary activity I contribute several clients and an occasional new employe every month.
Does the time and fee correlate and in your experience can you live comfortably in a high expense area on a single income only doing estate planning work? I’m doing 100% loan signings (90% direct) in order to earn a higher income to offset living expenses.
We pay our caregivers $180 to $250 per day and have to constantly recruit employees. Creating (remember you’re self-employed) 4 signings per day to reach that income level is not doable probably because you’re taking the lowest bids. Most title companies have an entrenched notary on staff that takes all the local business, leaving the job of finding remote closers to signing services that even the most generous ones split the fees with the notaries. You will never reach your income goal by splitting fees.
Notary_veg, I also enjoy hospital notarial work. I agree that Laura wrote a good book. Several people commented on hospital notarizations being challenged in court, which makes sense. That can be mitigate by making notes in your journal and declining to notarize when your signer may not know what they are doing or are being pressured. Hospitals and other professionals ask Alert and Oriented questions to help evaluate a person’s state.
Some of the common questions are: What is your name? Where are we? Who is the President of the United States? Why am I here with you at this time?
I don’t insult them by asking who the president is. And most people would like to forget that these days anyway! I also don’t walk in and say, why am I with you? They see all kinds of people during their stay. I introduce myself, in case no one introduces me, and I focus on the document. I ask if they understand the purpose of the document or if they can tell me the purpose. Most of the time I’ve screened the family member so well on the phone that it’s not necessary. They understand it has to be scheduled when the patient is most alert.
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