Two days ago I accepted an order for a seller’s signing close by. I checked reviews on this signing service and there was one negative review from a year or so ago about chasing payment but they otherwise had good reviews from clients. Once I received the order, I see in the special instructions that the signer will provide one witness and the “notary can be the second witness”. In NC, notaries aren’t permitted to be witnesses on a document we are notarizing though seemingly most of these signing services don’t care, as long as there are notaries who are willing to be the witness. And there must be plenty The signing service only provided an email to contact the client and he responded pretty quickly to confirm and that he will be providing one witness.
I contacted the signing service through the portal to let them know that I can’t be a witness and I would need additional compensation for providing a second witness. The response was, “let’s get the docs and see if two witnesses are required.” I responded that if is a FL property that a second witness is needed and could they please contact title to find out as I need the time to secure a witness. No response.
Fast forward to this morning, it’s two hours before the appt, I still don’t have the docs or any response about providing a second witness or confirmation they will pay me for it. So I send a message in the portal. They claim they sent me a message two days ago in the portal to secure second witness, yet nothing is there. And they haven’t made an adjustment to the fee. I messaged them about the fee needing to be adjusted and they haven’t responded to that- only to 'find a witness". I now have all the docs and it’s 1.5 hours before the appointment but don’t have a witness secured and don’t have time to chase one down. NC allows video witnessing (temporarily) and I can likely find someone to do that and have them sign later. Though I have never used this before and need to research the rules.
It’s now 1.25 hrs away from the appt and they have finally added the additional fee for the extra witness- after I requested it a second time.
This all feels very unprofessional and disrespectful. And I’m feeling like i should just cancel and let them find someone else. What are your thoughts? I will, of course, have to decide before anyone weighs in, but curious what your thoughts are on this situation.
It truly presented you with a few dilemmas here . . .
I regularly strongly recommend that you ‘always trust your gut.’
Within my business model, if a client is in need of a witness (or two), I provide the Alert well in advance that they will need to gather those folks for the signing appointment.
At that time, I also provide them with the State specifics about Witness requirements. This information will enable them to coordinate with appropriate individuals to provide Witness services for them.
If you’re sensing a lack of genuine cooperation and professionalism from that business entity, that demeanor will probably persist & could result in a Non-Payment situation (as you’ve referenced being in their past).
Of course, as you’ve indicated above, you’ve probably already had to make a decision in this matter. Hope this information helps for the future scenarios as they present themselves.
Next time, give the borrower the opportunity to provide all the witnesses, first explaining your state’s notary law. If borrower cannot get all the witnesses, there are a couple of options. 1) You, the notary can ask your family member over age 18 to be one of the witness. 2) Use the Find A Notary feature here on Notary Cafe and call notaries in the borrower’s zip code and see if he/she is willing to simply witness a signature for $25 compensation. The borrower needs to pay this fee, immediately due. The borrower can demand reimbursement from title/escrow but the witness should get immediate compensation for their gas and time. Years ago, I did exactly that for a hospital appt. The patient needed a witness for one of his documents and didn’t have one. I offered to call an acquaintance who was a notary and see if she was available to be a witness and she said yes - for $20 compensation. The patient agreed. She met me at the patient’s room and witnessed his doc. He paid her $20 and she left, then we finished handling the rest of his paperwork.
So yes - give the borrower the option to produce all the witnesses. If that’s not feasible, then offer to provide the witness for nominal compensation. $25 is customary for each witness. If the borrower agrees then just call notaries in the borrower’s zip code listed in Notary Cafe. I’m sure someone is willing to make a quick $25 cash for 5-10 minutes of their time. Pull out the doc that needs witnessing, handle that first then the witness can leave with their $25.
Sorry, you lost my interest when you disclosed you had an hour and a half drive. That would be like me taking signings in Los Angeles. All in a state that has over 600,000 commissioned notaries.
If the signing company doesn’t have the docs within a certain time for you to be at the appointment you can cancel. You also have to option to push the appointment back but check with the signer. Also ask the signer if they can provide the required witness.
UPDATE: I did follow through with the order. As stated in the original post, I only had an email address for contact (NO PHONE NUMBER), so texting/ calling to ask for second witness couldn’t happen and trying to get a quick response by email to find a second witness with an hour before the appointment seemed daunting. I emailed the client and let him know the situation and asked if he could find a second witness that would work best, otherwise we could video call the second witness, who I had lined up with little time available. All while printing out each document individually as they weren’t batched together as one document. The client luckily was able to provide the second witness which was need for two other documents beyond the Deed, one being a durable power of attorney. He was lovely but the signing service was dismissive and unapologetic. I will wait to see if they pay me on time and will update here then. Thanks for your input.
In my opinion, it is NEVER the signing agent’s job to find a witness. I flat out turn down any job where the notary is asked to provide a witness (other than myself). I feel that the signing service/title company/lender is doing nothing short of taking advantage of the notary in such situations. It creates a stressful situation for the notary with a totally inadequate reward.
It’s a cakewalk to find a witness - borrower can provide them free or there’s a ton of witnesses on this site using the Find A Notary search feature - notary calls them, borrower pays. “I don’t want to make $25 cash for 5 - 10 mins of my time” said no one - ever. LOL!!!
Except that 5-10 minutes of their time may turn into an hour or more if they have to travel to and from the signing location. If borrower could provide them free, they would have. I’m sure that they get asked first if they have someone who can be a witness before the notary is asked to provide one.
In reality, the real estate company should provide the witness, since they make the most commission off of the whole deal.
Not always the case in my 18 years of loan signings. During confirmation call, ME: “You’ll need X witnesses to watch you sign X doc, we’ll take care of that first so your witnesses can be on their way.” Borrower: Witnesses?!?!?!? What witnesses? No one told me about any witnesses!!" Had that happen more than once. Zip code of borrower in Find A Notary search feature should yield witnesses near the borrower, not an hours long drive. Though I’m in a city where Notaries are on every corner. It’s unfortunate that the rural Notary or borrower’s drive is an hour from everything but for the city folks - easy to find a witness near the borrower. Totally understand if you choose not to accept assignments asking you, the Notary, to find witnesses. Recently, I was contacted via email by a Signing Service for GNW - to have two affidavits notarized and at the bottom of the email it said “Notary to provide 2 witnesses.” I declined the offer because I don’t work with Signing Services.
well, somewhere in my 25+ years of notary I read that the reason why signing a document needed a witness or two was sort of an ancient tradition. It has to do with fact that a notary is getting paid by you (think bribe) to witness his signature whereas unpaid witnesses (not bribed) would be more trustworthy.
she said the signing was close by