Witness needed? Ask a stranger in Starbucks đŸ˜”â€đŸ’«

It’s nice to know that in some states people are so friendly and trusting that they would

be willing to sign a document as a witness for a complete stranger.

I live in Michigan and while there are friendly people here, I would not recommend asking a

complete stranger to sign as a witness on a document. Are people in your state ready and willing?

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@jennjoneis Interesting question . . . :thinking:

Well, prior to COVID-19 as well as the dramatic increase in SCAMS, asking a stranger to Witness the execution of a document was without consternation nor hesitation at:

Panera Bread

Starbucks

McDonald’s

etc.


However, since those ‘times’ occurred, it’s now nearly impossible to find an individual (let alone 2 . . . , which is normally needed for some General Notary Work [GNW] documents) willing to provide their signature in Witness to a document execution.

Most are hesitant, but kind in their refusal with a few others who choose to be less than kind to a signer’s request for a Witness.


:swan:

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EXACTLY !!! I had a signing at a nursing home. When asked, the manager said it was against their company policy to let any of the workers sign as a witness.

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@jennjoneis A few years back that stance was also widely adopted across the region by:

  • Nursing homes
  • Rehabilitation centers
  • Hospitals
  • Retirement homes
  • Etc.

When scheduling a GNW appointment with a client within one of those institutions & IF the document requires a Witness (or 2 as per normal for some documents), I alert my client ahead of time to the previously stated restriction as follows:

The staff and/or employees are able to be a Witness to healthcare documents or other documents that aren’t financial in nature.


Usually, clients are under the incorrect presumption that their nurse/staff/physical therapist, etc. will be a Witness for them.

When they check with that person, they confirm that they’re only able to Witness healthcare documents & nothing financial.


NOTE: This scenario differs across the US.


:swan:

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I don’t take jobs that require a witness.

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Totally agree. As soon as they are offered, I say no and leave a comment “I don’t have a witness”

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@jennjoneis It’s like that in FL - nursing home employees (and hospitals too, I believe) are prohibited from being a witness to the signing.

As for random strangers - had a signing quite a while back and signers chose to sign at a local gas station/restaurant - since I can be one witness, with their permission I pulled a guy out of the pizza line to witness the signing!! LOL

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Agreed, not worth the hassle for an extra $20 bucks. In my opinion, having a witness should NOT fall on the notary as a responsibility. If someone needs a witness, they should provide one at time of signing. Why is having a witness the notaries responsibility?

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Is it the notary’s responsibility to provide witnesses? No, it’s not. Are there options to get witnesses when/if the client can’t/won’t? Yes, there are. If client meets me at a public place (i.e. coffee shop, fast food place, hotel lobby, hospital, etc.), who will ask strangers in the area to be a witness? Client will do that, not me. Would I turn down business because a client can’t/won’t provide witnesses? No, I won’t. What are the options for client to get disinterested third parties (witnesses) for FREE? Their friends, neighbors, strangers in hospital waiting room, co-workers if signing at their job, etc. What other options are there? Notaries from Notary Cafe’s directory for a nominal $25 fee. Who pays for this $25 fee? The client. Who calls notaries from the directory to secure witnesses? The client, but the notary can agree to do so as a courtesy.

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I consistently require the client to be responsible for providing their own disinterested witnesses for both General Notary Work (GNW) and loan signing assignments. As a public official, I strive to remain strictly impartial throughout the entire notarial process, and I believe that finding a witness is fundamentally the client’s responsibility rather than mine. Should any legal issues arise or if a deposition becomes necessary, I prefer not to be put in the position of being responsible for tracking down or justifying the origin of a witness I personally sourced. The only rare exception I make is when my wife serves as a witness for a loan signing, as I am confident that she is a reliable party and will always be easy to locate for any necessary follow-up questions or testimony.

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what a nice guy in the pizza line

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That’s how people are down here
for the most part.

My 2 cents

My state is not a witness state. I wound up in a job where the company did not advertise the need for witnesses for the property in FL. When I got the docs, and asked about the witness lines, I was told that the signers provide 1 witness and that I act as the other witness. I was advised to NOT be both a witness and notary and research backs it up.

I wound up reaching out to the client to see if they could provide 1 more witness, and they did without issue. I do agree that the clients should have been told that 2 witnesses were required for their signing, instead of just 1 witness. Seems simpler for everyone involved.

There were no additional witness fees on that job, even though I had to make sure witnesses were lined up, verified, and signed in the right places. My thought is that $25 is a reasonable fee to do this extra work for the 2 witnesses at the table, no matter how they were provided.

I had it happen again, and I canceled the job due to the miscommunication. Now, I also avoid offers with witness requirements.

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@loriminer :white_check_mark: Understand your position on it. :white_check_mark: You’re correct it does absorb additional time & effort to facilitate it with the signers.


I usually simply inform the signer(s) that Witnesses are required & that they are to schedule them. I also provide them with the particular Witness Restriction information.


The signer(s) scheduling the Witnesses is the process that the majority of us follow for General Notary Work [GNW] and for Professional Signing Agent [PSA] work as well.


:swan: