What spurred me to write this post was getting offered $40 from NotaryGo to do a refinance.
That’s $15 an hour after gas. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
But someone must be accepting these fees, because they keep offering it. And they keep a huge part of the cut.
Join the facebook group! we need to unite, and complain in one place. that’s the only way to make a concerted effort to stop accepting these fees. We pay for insurance, bond, certifications, licenses. That’s worth more than $15 an hour!
All of us, including “newbees” HAVE GOT TO STOP ACCEPTING THESE LOW BALL OFFERS." For every low ball offer that comes in, I get 2-3 full price offers about the same time. My minimum fee is $100 with no fax backs. ADD $25 for critical docs or $50 for full package faxbacks (figure your time and expense of faxbacks). It’s not surprising that I have all the work I want with these fees. Why lose a better paying appointment by taking these low balls? The only way we are going to get rid of the low ball offers is to stop paying them. Do the math, it costs me (and you) $65+ in hard costs within 25 miles of my office PLUS the amortization cost on my printer, computers, vehicle, etc. I GET ALL THE WORK I WANT WITH MY FEES SO STOP SELLING YOURS SELF OUT OF BUSINESS BY TAKING THESE LOW BALL FEES.
If you factor in everything: Your gas, your ink, your paper, everything that has to do with the cost of doing a $40.00 signing you are making less than minimum wage. You will realistically need to do 5-6 signings a day every single day to break even or not! My signings are at least 180-225 pages - 30 miles one way. Do the math! There is no way to do a 200 page signing 30 miles away (60 round trip) through rain, sleet and mountains (you might die) printing the docs (paper and ink) for $40.00. AND they have the nerve to want fax-backs!!! Not even!!! It’s not ethical or fair!!
You need to share exactly what you do when these low-ball offers come through. I am sure if you share people will follow. When you see the low-ball offers come through, how do you respond. Do you call them and ask for a different rate?
I figure every refi has around 2.5-3 hours in it by the time you do everything involved so you are in the negative, not $15/hr on a $40 refi. You get the order call, you call the borrower some time multiple times to confirm, you hassle with emails to get the docs, you download and print docs, you drive to the closing, you sign the documents minimum 30 minutes with a normal size doc pkg 125 pages or less, you go to ups/fed ex if it is still in business hours to drop, otherwise you have to go home and then go back out the next day to drop docs because they no longer provide us with labels/acct numbers for pick-ups at our home offices. That’s about 3 hours worth. Any refi less than $90-$100 is an absolute low ball fee. Not to mention some of them are coming with 180 page packages and they don’t expect to pay more. I charge a $20 fee for oversize doc package. They don’t pay, they can re-assign and take the risk with a newbie. I posted on your facebook site and someone responded “Its illegal to fix prices”
These guys are the KINGS of low ball fees!!! They send me offers every day of $35-$60 every day. I have emailed them and told them to remove me from these low ball fees that I do nothing for less than $75 and I still get them. They said I need to go to the site and update the profile. Can you believe notaries are taking $35 for a HELOC???
Does anyone know how to do their business math on this? For even numbers sake 200 pages x 3cents a page minimum cost which includes toner/drums/paper over time and x2 for borrower copy = $12 just to print. That leave you $38. A car at 20 miles to the gal that 1.5 gal gas x 2 = 3 gal gas here its $2.75/gal $5.50 now you have $32.5 Between phone calls, emailing and printing that’s1 hour time. Travel to and from 1.5 hours minimum with decent traffic and with that HUGE oversized package if you are REAL fast 45 mins to sign. 3.25 hours. You might be bare to the bone lucky if you scrape by with $10 hour. Now with that $10 hour you need to buy groceries, car payment, health insurance, dog food, pay rent/mortgage, daycare, car maintenance, printer repair, internet service, cell phone service, every couple years new phone, lights for your home office, etc. GET THE PICTURE??? Yes you get business tax deductions at the end of the year but that does not FEED you during the year! Living like you are on welfare should not be your goal for self employment!!! You are going to be HOMELESS with these rates. YOU WILL BE OUT OF BUSINESS! And kill the rest of us while you are doing it. It feels painful when saying NO to a customer but just try it for 2 weeks…say I’d love to do it but I really need to get $95 for that closing. Make yourself VALUABLE!
You are so accurate! But - a shipping label or account number is absolutely necessary if they want to get their docs.
Fax backs for lowballs are a non-issue. It’s just not going to happen. They can’t lowball and expect you to pay the shipping and fax back. I had a company try to add fax backs after all negotiations. I reminded them that fax backs were not part of the initial negotiation and that would be an additional $40.00. Guess what…they no longer needed fax backs! I know notaries are “hungry” and are willing to do any signing in order to have money coming in but they are not being smart. We need to educate them! That way they will at least they’ll know they’re being taken.
While I am still “new” to providing this line of service, I can’t say I agree with half of the complaints as presented here. Not to offend or make anyone get touchy-feely & feel as though they are under attack… most of this just seems to venting and or whining.
Low-ball fees are offered because people accept them. People accept them because they do not value the service they provide.
You are not going to waltz into an attorney’s office and offer him $15.00 /hrs. because you respect the service he/she is going to provide. Conversely… that attorney will not accept such a low rate because they value the time, energy, and other things poured into their business (career).
Ultimately… It doesn’t matter what rate is offered. It doesn’t matter how much you complain here or on any other forum. It doesn’t matter how much it displeases, angers or pisses you off when low rates are offered. That is that company’s business model. No one is forcing you to take part in them profiting. If you refuse the assignments they will have to change tactics. <-- really isn’t the point though.
The Point:
What does matters is the value you place on the service(s) you provide. What matters is the level of respect you have for the services you provide. What matters is your refusal to accept rates that do not explicitly support the value you place on your own business. What matters is your understanding the true cost of conducting business, establishing a profit margin, & sticking to those rates.
I suggest you expand your horizons if you’re truly appalled by the low-ball agencies. Start one that offers a fair negotiable rate. Expand your offering to generate other lines of income that are equally if not more profitable than solely being a signing agent.
Most signing agencies I have been contacted by are operated by NSA’s (active or retired from the hustle of field work). They have some idea of the cost of conducting this business. Why would you accept work from someone who knows that the rates offered are a detriment, obviously doesn’t value the work you put into your business, and willing practices business in a way that is easy considered unethical?
It’s notary’s fault for saying yes when you should have politely stated hell no to offered work with sub-par rates attached.
I don’t operate a signing agency. It doesn’t bother me when they offer ridiculous rates. I am a NSA who understands what it take for MY business to be profitable based on my goals. I stick to MY rates. I tell companies and individuals NO when they do not agree to my rates. It’s really that simple.
As a matter of fact it doesn’t have to stop. You’re right, there are notaries that will chase the low ball signings until they’re goofy. The signing service or title company doesn’t care about a notary’s experience, integrity, honesty, ability to get the job done on time and without grief. That is out the window sweetie. It’s all about the money.
I have assignments from other sources that pay my fee without hesitation. I can survive without Snapdocs which is essentially what I am doing. My assignments have not suffered because of Snapdocs since I have good relationships with other assigners, title companies, and lenders.
