Yesterday, I was instructed I HAD to print the appraisal in the package.
At the table, I asked the borrowers - did you receive a copy of your appraisal? Why yes, yes we did.
From now on I’m asking before I print that monster for the borrower copy. It’s such a waste of resources when it’s been sent electronically before the signing.
I agree. I have an order today that there are over 40 pages including the appraisel, the appraisers license, and their liability insurance policy. All of these pages could have been and may have been sent in a pdf to the signer. Print that twice and you’re over 80 pages.
It’s really lazy to ask a notary to print and return that with documents - they probably have it via email and want someone else to print it. Cheap Big Time.
I wonder if it is a shortcut for them to be able to have all the loan documents in one place, so they don’t have to go searching for anything.
That may be. And they also would rather use my ink and paper - more likely LOL.
I got another closing same lender different service - no appraisal included. Hmmmmm.
I want to preface my thoughts by stating that this is simply my viewpoint, and I fully respect that others may hold different opinions on this particular matter. I completely understand the understandable desire to conserve valuable resources such as paper, toner/ink, and, of course, our valuable time when we are handling loan documents, which can often be quite extensive and cut into our profit margins. However, I have a specific question regarding the potential financial implications when a notary chooses not to print all of the pages that are a part of the provided PDF document, as originally requested and, I would assume, expected by the hiring company or the lender involved. Specifically, my question is this: If a notary fails to print the complete document as requested, would they feel a sense of obligation to provide a partial refund of the printing fee they were initially compensated for? It seems counterintuitive to me that we are compensated to print every single page within the electronic documents, and then somehow we, on our own, decide to deviate from that clearly established expectation without facing some form of consequence, either financial or otherwise. In other words, it simply shouldn’t be acceptable for us to accept an assignment and then unilaterally decide not to fulfill the agreed-upon requirements of the hiring company, especially when those requirements are clearly outlined in the initial instructions. I understand, and even empathize with, the desire to avoid printing pages that are not a direct part of the borrower’s contractual obligations, such as informational notary aides and other miscellaneous documents that may not be essential. However, I believe that it fundamentally tests our ethics, integrity, and our professional morals if some of us choose to take such steps, even if they seem minor. We often complain about low fees or the fact that hiring companies don’t always see the true value that we, as professional notaries, bring to the table. I felt I had to step forward and present this particular point of view and with no disrespect to anyone. Now, I am certainly not claiming to be anyone’s judge, nor do I wish to be. However, I do firmly believe that we all need to collectively sit down and establish certain standards within our profession and hold each other accountable for upholding them collectively.
This right here . We have an obligation to fulfill even if we don’t like it . Our integrity in fulfilling our agreed upon duties is paramount.
I always print everything. But for the signers I leave out 5 pages of instructions on the W-9. And notary instructions.
I don’t think there’s any problem excluding them.
Appraisals being included to print is not a usual thing that adheres to a standard. Otherwise every package would include an appraisal to print. I’ve had them included 3 times - always the same signing service. It’s not even lender specific. That was my point about asking a signer if they received it. I’d print and return it for the service but if a signer said they had a copy already I probably would not print it again. JMO. As for selectively printing only a few documents - I agree with you.
The problem is that there are no standards in our profession about what’s supposed to be in a package and what isn’t. One company can send us just the essential documents, and another company can send us everything but the kitchen sink and offer us exactly the same fee. One problem is that we don’t know exactly what we’re getting until we get it, but we’re supposed to blindly accept a fee that’s dictated to us by people who may not even know how to do the work themselves. The bottom line is that the system that we work within is flawed. Sometimes, when there is a gray area, we may need to make a judgment call on a certain element of the signing.
I personally will almost always print all pages of a package, at least in the signed copy that’s going back to the lender. For me, it’s just easier to do that than to try to pick and choose which pages to print and which not to. Same with scanbacks. It’s easier to just scan the whole package than to cherry pick certain pages.
For the signer’s packet I will print everything but instruction pages and “for internal use” documents. If I print a copy of the appraisal for the signer, I will not print a copy to return to the lender. When I see that an appraisal is part of the packet, I will call title and ask if they need to have a copy returned in the signed packet. I have never had them tell me anything other than no.
I also exclude notary instructions .
@Steve11, I totally get what you stated. I truly believe in the “KISS” theory, which is keep things simple. I am not going to spend my valuable time removing pages. I just price my services appropriately and provide a level of service that exceeds expectations. That’s why I haven’t complained about “low fees”. When I receive something outside of the norm, I have no problem making phone calls, or if necessary, returning assignments.
Exactly my MO! My fee assumes package is approximately 150 pages x2, scan backs required, 2 signers and hiring party is notified any variance will require a fee adjustment. Then, when I receive docs if package is larger or there are more than 2 signers or Spanish is required or title is requesting hand-delivery of completed package to their office, my fee is revisited.
I print everything the hiring company sends me. If the borrowers’ loan package has duplications, so be it. I cannot take it upon myself to pick and choose what to print/what not to print just to avoid duplication or to save myself printing costs. To do so involves risk I am unwilling to take, thus I print what I am sent. Period.
As far as sitting down and establish standards, National Notary Association and Signing Professional Workgroup have already done that for us with the industry best practices they offer. Provided these do not conflict with any of our state laws, it is a great idea to adopt these practices as a framework in case we are ever challenged in court. We can raise our right hand and confidently state that we are following established industry best practices for notaries/notary signing agents.
As far as holding each other accountable, I applaud your idea as it is admirable in theory but it is wholly impossible in practice. I think this public forum is as close as we are going to get to that. 
@Carmen_Lane , You are most likely correct on the “accountable” aspect. But if enough of us start communicating similar messages, it may help somebody. It’s my personal belief, most people want to do the right things, especially new Notaries or Signing Agents.
I can say due to this conversation I have reconsidered just leaving the notary instructions in the borrower copies. I really don’t care if they have them it makes no difference to me either way. Healthy exchange is always beneficial .
Not sure I agree with leaving the notary instructions in the signer’s package. The last thing I want to have happen is some finicky signer digging around in the instructions meant solely for me, the notary. (I mis-spelled “solely” five times before I guessed correctly 
) Before you know it, someone will see some [dumb] instruction that they think was not carried out and they’ll: 1) tattle on me; 2) call me and ask if I missed something; or 3) call me out for not doing my job (even though I did).
Nah, I ALWAYS remove the notary’s instructions from the signer’s set of docs.
This is why I have been removing them !
I will not print an appraisal. The appraisal should have been given to the borrower long before the closing. I have worked in title, have worked for mortgage brokers/lenders and been doing closings for almost 40 years. The appraisal is sent to the lender via pdf and it is a part of the approval process of underwriting. It is the lenders responsibility to send the appraisal to the consumer not ours. I am not wasting my paper, ink and time to do their job.
I agree simple is better than to pick and choose
