I scheduled an appointment for a signing to later receive a call from the signer. He starts asking me on what happens if he does not sign. I said I believe we cancel but check with your specific terms on who you are working with. He said he talked to his contact and they’ve been texting and that it is too late to back out that he must sign the final documents. The signer expressed that they no longer wish to make the purchase as they cant afford it, with insurance and the total cost after said and done is much higher than they can afford. The no longer wish to finalize the transaction. Although I did not share my specific opinions I can see it is a younger guy with a newer job and has a 9% interest rate. However, probably happens all the time it is none of my business. I already had the documents. I said I cannot force you to sign if you do not want to under the notary laws. He paid a sizable deposit. I can see it says it is not refundable unless specific conditions apply under the agreement but he did not sign this document yet. Obviously, I did not share this with the signer as I cannot advise them or in the position to get involved. Plus he could have signed this via docusign already and I do not want to be involved with him possibly losing a sizable deposit. Basically i do not want to be involved at all, it is messy. I feel like I am a 3rd party notary but cannot proceed with the closing under notary laws if it is a situation where they do not want to sign but were told they must and it is too late. I also do not know if this will impact his deposit. I do not want to jeopardize my relation with my client of 2 years who never had an issue like this one. All I said was please contact the dealership and speak to them on this as I will contact my client and let them know the situation. I am unable to notarize under the notary rules for what’s happening here. I was somewhat surprised that my client corresponded with the signers client and me in the same message to reference a copy of what I said and let them know they may need a new notary because I am uncomfortable. I haven’t said anything else but it is not the fact that I am uncomfortable as the fact that it seems illegal in my state for a notary to notarize in this situation and I could potentially have independent liability as a notary. I also personally think it is wrong what they are doing and forcing someone into something they no longer want and can’t afford. I get it, it is a big waste of time and resources but I did not feel comfortable being involved in this type of situation.
Anyone have anything like this? Have any of your signers been told they must sign and it is too late? What would you do?
Once the signer told you they did not want to sign, that’s all you needed to know. You should respond to him to contact the lender/title company and express his wishes. You can inform him that you will contact your agency and let them know that he has canceled the appointment with you. Then call your agency to inform them that the signer expressed to you their decision to not sign the paperwork at this time. Ask for your print fee.
I too had a situation where the borrower got on the phone with the loan officer who was trying to strong arm the borrower into signing the docs. (In my opinion it was a bad loan…I said nothing) but the borrower came to the conclusion on his own. At the end of the conversation, he turns to me and says. “I hear what the loan officer is saying… but to be honest I’m not comfortable with signing these documents”. That’s all in needed to hear. I told him that if that is his position, I will share it with the lender… I then packed up and walked out. It is our job as notaries to be an independent party. So, if they refuse… that’s all you need to know not to move forward.
Yes we want to help but I had a signing service that I respected tell me years ago
Just say “please call the Lender”
Or if the person is not knowledgeable
Just say to spouse
I am sorry I cannot notarize and leave.
I’ve had about every situation in 18 years also if someone asks you for your documents not their copy you should tell them these are not my copy there at the titles copy of the documents and your lender but we can get them on the phone right now because your copy is exactly what I have
I had one fellow scream and yell at me that he wanted to see my copies that he was going to sign course he didn’t and he told me to get out which I just kept my mouth shut and left
it is such a pain because then you have to write up everything and cataloging make sure that everyone gets copies but don’t let anyone ever intimidate you.
These situations is best to practice defensively. If they don’t want to sign inform them you can’t advise on what they should do and refer them to the originator. The less you say the lower you chances of being pulled into court to testify.
She mentioned “dealership” so I’m assuming this is an auto loan. Auto loans are a bit higher.
To irina, I feel you did the right thing. There’s nothing you can do - if the signer is refusing to sign, it’s not up to you to sell the loan. That’s between him and the lender or dealership/title company (depending on the type of loan, which is not really clear in your post) He’s probably going to be in breach of contract and will most likely lose his deposit. among other penalties that may be imposed in the event of a real estate deal.
Good luck with this. Let us know how things work out.
There’s more to it than not being able to proceed “under notary laws” and that is if they’re not going to sign, then there won’t be any signatures to notarize!
Well, problem is if she talks them into signing, later down the road they can scream they signed under duress or coercion…and the notary gets thrown under the bus. Don’t forget, the ack’s intention js they are signing as their free act and deed for the purposes therein contained.
No one can force a signer to sign against their will. It’s called duress. It’s illegal. Tell the signer to contact the company, and let the company explain the consequences of cancelling. You contact whoever hired you and explain the situation.
Was there a gun to someone’s head? If not, there is no such thing as “must sign”. Once the signer called to say they didn’t want to sign, I would not even get in the car. I would contact the client and tell them the signer was backing out, so they needed to handle it. I would then make them agree to a cancellation fee, in writing, if I made the trip for nothing. Your job is to notarize the signatures, not to determine who is obligated to do what.
I was looped in an email yesterday which was to the client about the NEW notary who is meeting him this Saturday morning to sign the documents. I wonder what he is going to tell the notary at the table and if he will go with it and sign.
Please be aware that some lenders,TCs, or SS will throw the NSA into the legal meat grinder. Always keep copies of your communications in these situations.
Here’s another thing I can tell you’re a very empathetic person as well as I am. Be empathetic without " throwing your employer under the bus". We never know all sides of a situation.
I would say “Well look ( you say kindly)I’m a notary and I’m here to notarize your signature. If your signature is not on this page, I’m not notarizing it. I’m also not here to force you to sign anything you don’t want to sign. whatever you decide, you can chalk it up to experience and be older and wiser from it.” ( If it’s a younger person😃)
Let me let the people that hired me know from my end that you’ve refused to sign and hopefully that will be the end of it. But I can’t leave the table until I let them know.
If the Signer calls the lender and there’s a lot of back-and-forth, you can only hope that the lender doesn’t exert a lot of pressure because it is very uncomfortable to be there for that
Wow, that would make me feel really bad if that happened to me. but then at 70 I tell myself I can’t live with regret and I hope and pray that the signer is making the right decision
Sorry, I didn’t read your story. I know that no one ever has to sign, and the mere suggestion from a notary that the document has to be signed is illegal.
