There is a lot of competition here.
Hi Mrs. Arichter
I am also a new notary and I need your transparency on the fees I should charge for loan signing in California. I am in the process of purchasing the Escrowtab IPEN platform for loan signing and to make sure I am not overwhelmed with several documents that can cause error and delays in payment, however; I am more concern on two things. Firstly, being that I will be purchasing the IPEN platform can I still charge a $100+ as to doing things with a laser printer that is very costly? And secondly, what questions do I ask a title/contracting company before I accept an assignment to make sure they aren’t trying to manipulate my time and compensation?
Remember don’t hold back. I need your business shrewdness ….
Can’t help you. CA is a different planet and I don’t do IPEN as I see no way clear (here) for good enough ROI…particularly in current market. Good luck.
Ok can you help on what kind of questions I should ask a title/contracting company when they contact me, to reassure reliability and that they are legitimate in payment?
I’m sorry but what is an ROI??
@vroomnotary Great question. It’s good to see as a business owner you’re willing to Research data for development of your new business.
This was previously answered for you directly within the following thread:
With this additional response within the same thread:
With a reference to begin at the top of the thread here for full details:
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FYI: A Google search will provide you with a direct answer to your second query; i.e., ROI.
I figured it out earlier. Thank you so much…
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What is the average fee for a Refinance? For as long as I can remember (and that’s a long time) the average fee has been $250. It’s easy to check, just go to the notary fee on the same closing disclosure that the signer received a copy of several days before you arrived to sign the loan. That’s your money! and you deserve every penny. If you are not recieving that fee then somebody else is getting it and hiring you to do all the work. The sad part is the signer thinks you’re getting paid $250. That’s why occasionally a signer will lament how they should get in the “business”.Forget trying to explain to them that you are only getting $50, they will think you’re lying.
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What questions? They’ll tell you what you want to hear. Vet them yourself…here, there, everywhere. Don’t like what you’re seeing? GIVE IT BACK PROMPTLY and tell ';em why–or work for free…maybe they’ll pay you next time~~ That was sarcasm–there shouldn’t be a ‘next time’ for non-payers.
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That is such an open ended question, “What is the average fee for a Refinance?”. Let’s agree to the following definition of “Average” which is the summaizon of the low and high signing fees divided by the total number of the signing fees. . Keeping it “real”, that is a statistical question that can only be answered by Loan Signing Agents that are specifically located geographically in your marketplace area. We all can only speak from our own experiences. If you are a beginner in the business, you may not be able to get the same fees as an experienced LSA located in your area. There’s so many different variable factors to determines an average fee for a LSAs. Since 2020, things have drastically changed in our industry and impacted our loan signing fees. At the end of the day, we work in a “free market” and you have to learn how to get business and build your experienced at the same time. As an experienced LSA, I may be able to pass up on some low paying assignments, where a LSA beginner will never get started in this industry if they do not accept those low fee assignments that I elected not to accept. When I first got started in this industry, fortunately I was to take any assignment that I could get to get experience and build relationships. So, those low paying signing fees, eventually increase and I got exposed to various types of loan packages. The upside too, I established my relationships with various signing services and that led to building direct relationships with title companies. I am not a advocate of advising new LSAs to focus on trying to get the highest “fees”. I recommend that new LSA to focus on getting as many assignments possible to grow their knowledge, skills, and build their relationships. Keep in mind, the assignments that you turn down, someone else will accept it. In this business the competition is so great, it’s a title company/signing service market.
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Good educational post. I do disagree with ‘take lowball to start’. It may have worked for you–but it’s so area/competition/timing dependent that it’s not a good idea for all. Quite realistically, all they will do is find the next newb taking low fees to start.
FWIW: It seems that they will begin with an offer of about half of what they’re willing to pay–unless time is really short. It is a GAME, if you learn to play it well, you will get more signings at better fees, while avoiding working for minimum wage or less. Even with years of experience, they will still take the lowest fee…which, realistically, IS the closest notary as time/mileage are the biggest expense factor when calculating a PROFITABLE fee.
I am in SC. It’s true for purchases or refinances of a SC property, it must be a licensed SC Attorney. However, I stay very busy with refinances, purchases, and seller’s packages because the properties are in other (non-Attorney) states. I live in a resort area and there are lots of vacationers and folks in their summer homes, also people moving here and selling their property that is located elsewhere. Just because you are in an Attorney state doesn’t mean you can’t find success as an NSA.
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One thing about this forum, it allows our colleagues to share a variety of different thoughts and opinions. In most parts, there are no right or wrong answer and everyone have a right to express their opinion. It’s especially okay to agree to disagree on each other’s position. I agree with you on negotiation, which is an art that must be practiced in order to become skillful. Arichter, I have always found valued in your contribution to this forum. For instance, you made a very valid point on the proximity of a LSA, when accepting an assignment. Again I agree with you, about having to learn how this game is played. For those of us, who have been in this industry for more than the past five years, have heard this discussion on “low fees”, it’s not new. The real truth “low fees” are based on the principles of economics (business cycles). Of course, this is just my point of view and that will not buy you a cup of coffee… But if anyone wants too, we can meet virtually for a discussion and your favorite drink…LOL
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Yes, thank you for that. Sometimes working in an attorney state can be quite discouraging at times, but I seem to make my quota every month. though it doesn’t seem as though I do it without a struggle. But I wouldn’t change anything. I love being a loan signing agent.
Hi Trsss, I’m guessing I have not been a Notary Signing Agent as long as Arichter has been; her advise is sound. Today, I’m seeing advertisements from companies who offer NSA training so you can earn $150.00 per assignment or per hour. I have some title company direct clients who used to offer $125.00 to $150.00 per assignment and who are now offer $95.00 to $100.00 per assignment and Signing Services who are now offering signings anywhere from $40.00 to $65.00. Personally, I’m turning down assignments at that low amount.
Everyone has to take the time to understand what it costs them to conduct business. Do more than jot down some numbers. Open a spreadsheet or a financial template and take the time to include all your costs; it’s easy to include all the obvious costs and forget that there are other costs that you might not immediately think of, including what wage/salary do you need to take from the business, especially if you need the income to pay your rent/mortgage, buy food, pay for utilities, etc. Personally, my spreadsheet has a sub-routine so that I can update the volatile costs, such as gas, everytime the price at the pump changes.
Once you know what your costs of being in business are, then you can decide for yourself what your price point is for assignments you will accept or reject.
Personally, I do not like the concept of someone taking a $30.00 or $40.00 signing assignment “to get the experience,” but that’s an individual decision. If you want to be known by a Signing Service as someone who will work for peanuts, go for it. Just remember, that may be the kinds of offers you set yourself up to receive. And, if you think Signing Services do not track data about their clients and their NSA’s in the minutest of details, I suggest you should do some diligent research.
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Thank you. See…it ain’t just me repeating this endlessly. 
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So true, @terry Appreciate your post.
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Here is a guideline for those new to this business sector that is quite helpful to create an individualized List of Fees for professional services provided in our industry . . .
NOTE: Current IRS mileage rate is = 65.5 cents/mile
It would be in your best interest to jot down all of the expenses associated with performing the services you provide within your service region to determine a baseline operating cost. Then, at that point, you can calculate the fees that will generate a net profit to determine if you’ll have a Profit or sustain a Loss at that rate.
There are many items to consider within your Overhead calculations. Here are a few to get you started:
• telephone expenses including cell phone equipment and monthly service fees
• office equipment and furniture; i.e., work chair, work desk, reliable dual-tray printer, trustworthy scanner, etc.
• Notarial stamps for Jurats, Acknowledgements, Notarial Name, Commission Expiration, etc.
• rent and utilities
• paper
• toner
• binder clips
• pens (inexpensive for one-time use)
• stationery and supplies including stamps & envelopes
• travel costs to & from signer locations (i.e., create a generic by county list)
• travel costs to & from FedEx/UPS/USPS, etc. (i.e., choose your favorite location OR the closest that will provide you with a receipt)
• business insurance
• business-related meals and entertainment
• professional association memberships
• annual background checks
• annual certification expenses
• legal and accounting fees
• tax preparation fees
• advertising and marketing costs; i.e., Google ads, yellow pages ad, website, business cards, or brochure
• Protection equipment; i.e., COVID-19 masks, hand sanitizer, wipes, etc.
AND many more!
Your individual overhead would also include the cost of fringe benefits; i.e., medical insurance, disability insurance, retirement benefits. Also, remember to include quarterly income tax payment to federal & state (as appropriate) and self-employment taxes.
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If calculating all this accurately seems to be a bit overwhelming, reach out to your tax advisor and ask for guidance in this regard. 
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Also, there is an excellent specific cost breakdown by one business owner for services within her [ @anon78047977 ] region & for her overhead:
"Ok for a seasoned already in business Signing Agent (meaning no start up costs to factor in, just on going costs)
Average Refinance
- 150 pages (300 when having to print 2 copies)
- 35 miles average miles to signing/from signing/to FedEx drop
- Print cost average .15 per page (Laser printer, standard paper. Note this is also the cost at Staples, FedEx Office in the area BUT I have actually calculated my real costs by dividing the number of pages I get from a toner kit, my drum kit, cost of paper etc. but I use this average of .15 because there are Notaries around who actually use outside printing)
- IRS mileage .56 per mile [current rate is .655] (you can use actual costs of gas, insurance, plus maintenance costs. I will use the IRS rate because it’s a good average and I also have Tolls I have to pay which I will not add in this example. Also later I kind of use this amount as a “catch all” for other expenses. Again, I have determined my “actual” costs and the averages I use are pretty spot on.)
- 2.25 hours an average total time spent which includes, confirming appt & reviewing instructions, printing/prepping docs, travel time to/from/to FedEx, signing/notarizing docs, scan back
- Costs that people usually do not take into consideration because it’s part of their household BUT they are costs of running a business (home office expenses - internet, electric, computer, phone, supplies, etc.) Remember every business has similar expenses
So here we go…let’s look at average total for this signing:
$45 print costs
$19.60 mileage rate (So this number is based on IRS mileage rate. I use this number as a catch all to give me an estimate of my actual costs (gas, toll, %of annual maintenance, %of insurance and a % of home office costs, %of supplies, etc. Since I know my % for every business expenses, I already know this number is pretty close to my actual costs. For example my actual costs for this signing would be around $21)
It will cost me $64.60 for a 150 page refinance order. With no issues, no traffic, no reprints, no problems
If I took a $75 signing fee I would net $10.40
I would net roughly $4.62 per hour for a signing that took up 2.25 hours of my time.
$95 I would net $30.40 or $13.51 per hour
$125 I would net $60.40 or $26.84 per hour
$150 I would net $85.40 or $37.96 per hour
So when I advocate for SAs and fees I am not just coming up with number off the top of my head. I have done the math for myself personally."
SOURCE: Signing Agent Fee is Just Not a Notary Fee - #38 by notarybe
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Two more cost factors to think about: Self-employed Income Tax and inflation.