Some lenders include a document that says how many payments are required to cover closing costs. It’s a lot more than 6 I can tell you that. But I’ve heard at the table several times this year we’re going to refinance when interest goes down.
I say nothing. No matter what I hear.
If a notarization splits over 2 pages it can’t be used. In other words the city/state and verbiage has to be on the same page as the notary signature and stamp. if it’s not I just do a quick edit and push it onto one page by itself.
There is one title company that sends all legal size pages and when they do I ask for extra print fee because legal paper is WAY more expensive than letter sized.
I see you’re in WA. In CA, it’s illegal to edit the page to get that notarization over 1 page. Would be really nice! I’ve got to attach my own certificate!
I agree with johnsonps306. I often see statements in forums claiming “it’s illegal to….” But the poster is never able to quote the law that makes it illegal. At most, it turns out to be a title company practice or a recommendation from some organization like NNA.
Adding a loose acknowledgment changes a page count, and I’ve actually received a ding from a title company in the past for changing a page count it changes the cost for filing a document.
Correcting a notatrization is not changing the documents. It is correcting the notarization which the notary is responsible for so I disagree with your interpretation.
I wrote to Beth Hathoot since she is on the Board of rewriting the CoC. They are rewriting it to include alteration by Adobe and RON issues. So I guess it’s not officially there yet. Although it does say don’t alter the document, I understand why you say it’s only the notarization. And if they don’t have a way to check the whole document against what they received back, you’re right. It should be fine. Having done checksums on many documents, I personally won’t be doing it. (which I admit is very frustrating).
First off, the The Notary Public Code of Professional Responsibility of 2020 and the earlier 2016 version are not laws. They’re not even suggestions to state legislatures. They are an industry group’s document that tries to make notaries do things that are advantageous for title companies, lenders, etc. I have never heard of a state that requires notaries to agree to the code in order to become notaries. It’s true that many title companies and signing services will require notaries to pass an NNA signing agent test, and NNA won’t let you take the test unless you agree to the code.
Next, the citation Ev1 gave appears to be to the older 2016 version of the code. I think the text in the older version is subject to variations interpretations, but who cares? It isn’t worth looking at the outdated version.
The closest I can find in the new version begins on page 42, “V-B-4: Preparing Document Improper”, which reads in part:
The Notary who is not an attorney, or a professional duly trained or certified in a pertinent
field, shall not draft or prepare a document for another person.
It goes on to say it would be wrong for the non-attorney notary to fill in blanks that the signer does not know the answers to. This is not at all about how the notarial certificate is placed with respect to the rest of the document.
The title company in Nevada had 3 docs to be notarized and crammed the acknowledgment in the bottom of the page and into the next page.
I just pushed it all to the second page because you can’t split an acknowledgment over two pages.
I don’t see any issue doing that. The alternative is to call and inform Title. They made the mistake. Wait for a new document or be told to add a loose acknowledgment, but I’ve been awfully busy lately and didn’t want to be on the phone.
I give up. How many times did I say it isn’t law? And 2016 is the latest version of the Code of Conduct, which I was absolutely required to sign. How many times did I say the discussion was about the certificate and not the document? Although, I do think it’s of the document because I would be doing a checksum. I also said I’m CA, not WA. You do you. I am not in charge of you — unless they are my documents to sign or approve.
I’m not an NSA anymore. I mostly do notarizations in connection with the business of my town, such as administering oaths to people who testify at real estate tax hearings. So I wouldn’t have occasion to call a signing service or title company. And I don’t have any certification or background check from NNA.
For notarial acts that involve the signature of an individual, every effort should be made for the certificate to be on the same page as the name and signature of the individual; however, if they must be on different pages, the notarial certificate shall include the name of the individual.
So in the situation johnsonps306 described, there wouldn’t be rules that says I shouldn’t just attach a loose certificate, since there obviously wasn’t room at the bottom of the page with the signers signature to fit a certificate. I agree that even though there isn’t a law or rule in my state saying a certificate has to be on one page, it’s a best practice and I wouldn’t split a certificate across two pages.
I have been dinged for an error when adding a loose acknowledgement without permission and I have had a notarization rejected for being split over 2 pages.
Generally if something gets rejected it goes on my personal to do list of things to not do. That’s just my process.
The funny part of that is that sometimes the title company or lender splits the acknowledgement into two pages. So they’re diinging you for something that they did in the first place. I don’t understand about the loose acknowledgement. Why can’t you add your own if the one they provide isn’t adequate for whatever reason? Sometimes they give you one that doesn’t have enough space to write two names in there (especially long names). So what else are you supposed to do other than to add your own? Or sometimes they give you one that isn’t compliant with your state requirements.
If the last page has a fair amount of space on it, and I didn’t have the PDF, I could lay a loose certificate over the bottom of the last page, so their version is still visible, and mine is below it. Then I’d lay the two pages on a copier and end up with an 8.5 by 11 in. page with the end of their certificate above and mine below. Then I’d draw a diagonal line through the two parts of their certificate and initial. Then I’d complete mine. The total number of pages would still be what they expect.
My point is that they shouldn’t give you a bad form in the first place. They, of all people, should know better. I guess they hold us to a higher standard than their own work.
The NNA requires you to agree with this code as part of the Notary Signing Agent certification/recertification. However, what you are referring to Notary Acting as an Attorney. That is not the same as adjusting the notarial language, which we are responsible.
